Rediscovering Romance: Wisdom for Middle-Aged Men Seeking Connection

Jonathan Aslay: Wisdom for Middle-Aged Men Seeking Connection

D Brent Dowlen: [00:00:00] Do you feel like you're in a dating purgatory? Navigating the dating landscape as a middle-aged man in today's society can feel like decoding a mystery in a whole new language. Join me and highly sought after dating coach Jonathan Asley as we uncover the truths, challenges, and triumphs of modern dating for men who've never settled down or find themselves newly single again.

From overcoming insecurities to decoding today's norms. This episode promises insights that every man needs to thrive in the dating world in 2025 or later. Get ready to redefine your approach and discover what it takes to be successful in today's dating scene. Jonathan and I was reading one of your posts the other day that you shared, and it said 71% of single women over the age 40 say they're not even interested in dating, which kind of blew my mind, and I would think that would be a huge issue for men, middle aged men who are looking to date.

But more importantly, in your experience as a dating coach, what is the biggest problem facing middle aged men in the dating scene right now? [00:01:00]

Jonathon Aslay: Um, oh my God, we could do a whole episode on that for the next five hours. Uh, what I think men are faced with, and I'll be, I'm gonna be a little bit more introspective here.

I think one of the challenges most men have is they don't really know what they want. And I'm talking about midlife men, and, but I need to explain why that is, is when we're in our twenties and thirties, we have this blueprint that's go to college, get a job, meet someone, get married, buy a house, start a family.

And many men followed that blueprint. But, uh, like myself and so many others, roughly about 75% of singles over 45 years old are divorced. And because of that, not only is there a dismantling of the tapestry of their life through a divorce, but there's no real concrete understanding of what's the purpose of a relationship going forward.

Outside of making babies and raising a family, there's no real, [00:02:00] most men don't have a real concrete structure other than they know they want companionship, they want connection, they want physical intimacy. But what that structure looks like, most men are clueless, um, outside of what their own needs are.

So I think it starts without an understanding of what's the purpose of a relationship. And because of that, a lot of men are running around with their heads cut off like a chicken. And that's one of the reasons why women are frustrated from their vantage point.

D Brent Dowlen: Fair enough. Now Jonathan has some incredible insights he's gonna share with us today on the show.

We're gonna jump to our sponsor and we'll be right back with dating coach Jonathan Asley and dating for middle aged men.

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Welcome to the Driven Thrive broadcast purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men. I'm your host, Brent Allen, and we help men go from living to thriving, purpose-filled intentional lives. My guest today is dating coach Jonathan Asle. I'm probably saying that wrong, but Jonathan, welcome to the show.

Jonathon Aslay: Well, thanks so much, Brandon.

I'm happy to be here.

D Brent Dowlen: Now, Jonathan, I like to start really simple. So how's your trivia skills?

Jonathon Aslay: How's my trivia skills? Yeah, it depends. I'm good at movie, but, uh, other stuff, I could be weak.

D Brent Dowlen: Oh, I, I go for the most random nonsense I can find. So here's, here's the trivia question of the show. [00:05:00] What is the collective name for a group of uni unicorns.

Is it a as sparkle, B as spell C, a blessing or d, a glitter.

Jonathon Aslay: I'm gonna go with D.

D Brent Dowlen: All right guys, you know the routine. Don't cheat, don't look ahead, make your guests, we'll come back to that later 'cause no one actually cares. Now, to start off, who in your own words is Jonathan Asle? And Am am I saying that right?

Jonathon Aslay: No, you said it perfectly. So thank you so much. Who am I from? A existential point, or I mean from the way I, I am a, I'm a. I am a soul here. Having a UA human experience, you know, I'm a spirit, having a human experience. Okay.

D Brent Dowlen: Jonathan, what do you do for a living?

Jonathon Aslay: So professionally, I'm a dating and relationship coach now predominantly helping women understand men, mostly in midlife, which I say midlife is after baby making years and before [00:06:00] retirement.

Um, but if I really got even more granular here, I recognize that dating and relationships trigger the number one emotional health issue most human beings are faced with. That is, I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable, I'm not likable. And dating and relationships trigger this stuff like nobody's business.

So really, I'm, I'm more of an empowerment coach, encouraging people to work on themselves from a personal development, self-help spiritual therapy perspective, so they can navigate the dating marketplace with a lot more confidence.

D Brent Dowlen: It's actually really interesting to me because when I was getting ready for the show, I started going through your website and looking at some of your YouTube videos and stuff.

It's like, oh my goodness. Like you have made a living. The, the whole thing that got me started in what I do is I was helping translate, uh, women I know as boyfriends and [00:07:00] husbands for them. Like I've listened to him around my dinner table complaining about, oh, he did this or he did that. And it's like, it's like, do you understand what he's actually saying though?

Do you, did, do you know what that actually means? And I was looking through your videos. I was like, oh, dude, okay. You, you totally took that route and there is a desperate need. So I'm gonna be recommending your website to some ladies I know to help them understand their men, because I don't want to answer those questions anymore.

But Jonathan, I think we're gonna have, I, I love having dating coaches on.

Jonathon Aslay: Okay,

D Brent Dowlen: because this is not an area, right? I, I've been married for 24 years. We just celebrated our anniversary.

Jonathon Aslay: Congratulations.

D Brent Dowlen: And I've been with my wife thank you for 27 years, and I don't like, I have friends and I have audience and listeners that are dating, and it's like, I can't really help them.

So I think you're gonna help us a lot today. Now guys, we're gonna get to know Jonathan [00:08:00] just a little bit, see, see what makes him tick. And then we're gonna dive into middle aged men dating and what that looks like in the whole nother, uh, world. 'cause Jonathan's gonna be able to help you a whole lot more than I can.

Jonathan, are you ready for the speed round of nonsensical questions?

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah, but I, I have one real quick question to ask. Am I allowed to use expletives in any part of our conversation? Yes. Okay. Um, and, and just so you know, while I do work with women, men now reach out to me more than ever before. So I just wanted to, uh, emphasize I didn't say that earlier, so

D Brent Dowlen: No worries.

I, I already figured that out. That's what, that's why we're here today, so,

Jonathon Aslay: okay. Good, good, good.

D Brent Dowlen: Jonathan, before we actually get serious, what is something that everybody should know about you before we dig in today?

Jonathon Aslay: Uh, what do you say they should know? You know what, I can't stand condiments. I hate ketchup, mustard, mayonnaise and relish.

They gross me out like [00:09:00] nobody's business. When I'm at a coffee shop and it's at the table, I ask the waiter, waitress to please remove it. Should you know that about me? I don't know, but I'm telling you something, uh, weird about me.

D Brent Dowlen: You know what? That makes you absolutely human. It's, everybody has those interesting things, right?

Like I, I found out the hard way. I can't eat right bread, and I can't eat peas either. Who knew? Right? We all have those interesting little quirks about us that make us, us and shape kind of how we get through life now guys, we've just been having a little bit of fun getting to know who Jonathan is, what makes him tech take as dude.

And in the next part of the show, we're gonna start diving into modern dating for middle aged men. Now, Jonathan, I did not write out a whole lot of questions on my side just because I want to have an open discussion because I think there's so much that you can help in my audience with this. Um, now I know guys in this situation and of course I've, I've done some research and [00:10:00] there are a lot of fears for men who are either in that age range and haven't been married, or men who are newly divorced or are recently divorced, getting into the dating game again.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah,

D Brent Dowlen: and it's kind of a scary scene. I've talked to a couple other dating coaches in the last couple years, like, quite honestly, like I'm, I'm so grateful my wife and I continue to make our marriage work this like 'cause. I, I would be absolutely lost. Um, I'm, I'm a Gen X, I don't know that I could handle dating.

I wasn't really good at it when I was younger anyway. And so let's, let's start at just the top end. What does the dating scene look like in 2025 for a middle aged guy?

Jonathon Aslay: Well, let's put it for both men and women, um, because I think it's important to recognize that our current method of getting to know people is predominantly fueled by online dating.

Online dating represents, [00:11:00] I believe, over 65% of new couples that are generated these days happen through some sort of online connection. And that doesn't always have to be a dating cider app. That could include social media as well. So number one, that pure fact is that we oftentimes meet total strangers.

And when we meet a stranger and we know nothing about them, we have to spend time to get a sense of who this person is. And yet, historically, we have been driven by entertainment, romance, and physical connection as the pathway to love. In other words, it's driven through the, that vehicle, if you will. But what's missing is we, we almost have this accelerate need for an accelerated learning curve without actually getting to know another human being to really know, do I trust this person?

Do I actually really like this person? And you know, we, men are biologically driven. We're [00:12:00] driven sexually. We are fueled by our lower chakra, our penis more than we are our heart or practicality. So from a, from the male and from the male point of view. You know, and by the way, Brent, we could, I could sit here and give you a whole conversation of why I think the Red pill community is wrong and the Migal community is wrong.

And I could get into a lot of things that, because they point the finger at women as being the problem and women are not the problem. Um, men, men are not the problem. Human beings are the problem. It's a man and it's a human issue. Um, and I can go down so many rabbit holes, so direct me and I'll, I'll fire away.

D Brent Dowlen: Well, and I love the fact that we're laying equal blame here. That that's what all those movements really tend to hack me off. Uh, I, being in the men's space, I see a lot of the red pill community, the Migal community, [00:13:00] and the mig, the Migal community just blows my mind. Like, it's like, okay, you guys are just dumb.

I'm, I'm sorry. I, they are the, this whole. We don't need women is as is as dumb as women saying we don't need men. Right. We're, we're There's a reason that every species is, is paired male and female. Yeah. We, we both bring something to the table, so I I will gladly go along with it's equally, you know, shared responsibility in the situation we're in.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: Um, I know without diving into the extremists and that's,

Jonathon Aslay: yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: One of the things I try and shy away from the, is the extreme money of an argument, uh, because that's just nonsensical anyways. You never find the answer there is, you know, there are men who are trying to navigate [00:14:00] and like I said, I, I threw out that statistic that you shared on your Facebook.

There seems to be less women over the age of 40 who are. Actively searching for a relationship anymore. And so you've got guys who are in that age group who, there's disproportionate amount of women who are looking to connect, and so it's presenting this really interesting.

Jonathon Aslay: Well, I for

D Brent Dowlen: men,

Jonathon Aslay: can I jump in?

Yeah. So the, the statistic, while it, it, it, you have to recognize that to some degree statistics can, you know Yeah. Be false sense of, of perception. So to the extent that women don't necessarily do the searching anyway, it's usually men do the hunting. I mean, traditionally speaking, women get asked out. So part of that number could be that there are a lot of women that aren't searching, but they get asked out all the time.

So we have to kind of take that [00:15:00] into consideration to that. But what I think what that really represents, that number is women are frustrated at men's lack of direction. And, and I think the part of the problem, the lack of, because again, we, we men tend to traditionally be driven by our libido as our entry point into a relationship.

But once that occurs, a lot of men don't have direction other than it's my way or the highway. Now the reason why I say this is we age, we become very stuck or we get set in our ways. So women get set in their ways and men get set in their ways. And add to that, if you're divorced, if you have children, if you've got alimony and child support and visitation rights and family court and all this other stuff going on, you kind of like, I'm already overwhelmed in my life to begin with.

I want someone to just come in and be an easy adjunct to that because men have not been trained to actually [00:16:00] work on a relationship, particularly from an emotional level. I mean, we know statistically that women initiate 80% of the divorces. Well, a big chunk of that is men are either stoic when it comes to their emotions or they're non-existent when it comes to the real intimacy in a relationship.

And again, we men, traditionally, you're a Gen X Xer, I'm a boomer. We've been conditioned that our role is the provider protector. Okay? We, women don't need men to pay their bills. They, I mean, the midlife folks, okay? Um, for the most part, they can support themselves. So what are you gonna bring to the table?

If that's not what you're bringing to the table, you better start bringing some heart to the table. Um, and again, I'm, I, I know I sound a little combative towards the guys, and believe me, I equally bash women on my podcast and my channel, uh, as I do men. Okay? So just so for the guys watching, I know right at this moment I'm sharing [00:17:00] this because a lot of you guys don't have direction, but you don't know what that is because nobody teaches us what that looks like in midlife.

D Brent Dowlen: You know, it's an incredibly fair observation. Uh, one of the things I've frequently discussed on my show is the fact that as the role of men has evolved, we have not. Actually effectively redefined that, right? Men are still being taught the same imperative of our roles in a relationship that we have for thousands of years.

Yeah. I, I still hear it today with like younger, like Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Even men are provide, protect, preside, right? Procreate the four Ps. That's what they're good for.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: And we live in a time when that's not the case necessarily. You know, God forbid there are some areas that [00:18:00] hopefully you have somebody to help protect you just because it's safer in pairs, uh, in our society.

But most of us aren't, you know, running from wild animals or having that kind of Yeah. And so many women, women are doing well in their professional lives, especially at that point in their life. And so yeah, we've conditioned men. And we're still conditioning men. This is, this is your role, this is what you bring to it.

And no one is sharing. No, there's, there's more. It's, it's changed. We've moved past that.

Jonathon Aslay: So I wanna say something to this and you know, to this extent that we, men are such great protectors. The reality is, is, by the way, I'm six foot two. I weigh about 205 pounds, and I couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag.

Okay? I, the last time I got in fight was third grade. Okay. I mean, my capacity to physically protect someone is I'm a deer in the headlights. Uh, and you know, if a mugger [00:19:00] came up, we're fucked. Okay? The reality is, is we physically have not most men outside of law enforcement and military and a few other things, really don't know how to fight.

Okay? Let's be real. So that idea of protecting. Now, does that mean we could pay attention to hazards in the road and things like that? Absolutely. But from that traditional sense, as you said, thousands of years, it has literally been fight to the death. You know, now it's fight on your, your games, your, uh, PlayStation to death.

Um, and I'm just kidding. And you get to reset when you die in there, which you don't get to do in real life. So the idea, this is why protection is more. Really has to be from an emotional level, are you looking out for this other person's best interest or are you just self-serving in your own interest?

And sadly, at least here in the United States, Brent, we are a very myopic self-serving men and women [00:20:00] alike. What needs can I get met? Not what needs can I meet for the other person?

D Brent Dowlen: I had a conversation with another marriage therapist who, she talked to me about this idea of emotional safety and like I, I was just sitting there listening to her and I'm like, uh, I don't even know that I do this.

Well, um, this, this, you probably

Jonathon Aslay: don't,

D Brent Dowlen: right? No. Now I actively, my whole life have pursued trying to be a better husband, right? So I, I still read books on it. I still go to like marriage enrichment seminars when my wife, we do this regularly together. I. We're constantly trying to work on it, and I tend to put more into that than a lot of guys do.

And I still hear that idea of emotional safety. I'm like, what? That's a thing that, that, that, it barely computes for me. I, I'm a well [00:21:00] rigid in my, like, I, I don't need other people's, I've never needed, uh, other people's approvals or any kind of like, like that or encouragement. I've always been ridiculously confident in myself.

So people are like, oh, you're good. I don't care. Right.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah. But you've already shared with us, you know, you go out and you buy books. You are going to workshops with your wife. You're doing things to improve your relationship. You're not saying, I don't need it. Because like a lot of guys, I don't need any help.

I'm doing fine. And believe me, you'll be divorced in a few years, number one. But number two, you're actively working on your relationship. And I suspect because you see your relationship as a separate entity, and she's not someone who's underneath you, she's side by side with you. Um, and it's again, that perception that you walk in with, um, is, am I looking for a partner or if I'm looking for a, and again.

Again, if we [00:22:00] focus on what the red pill is talking about, they're looking for servants and they somehow impose that, suppose that that's going to make people happier. If we go back to a traditional way, believe me, women a hundred years ago were miserable with their husbands. Okay? They were taken care of, you know, basic needs were met, but on emotional level, they were miserable.

And I don't care. You, you know, we could pull out the movie like, you know, it's a Wonderful Life, or Ozzy and Harriet and that sort of thing. But those were, that was just like the fantasy roles. Um, so, you know, I think men, you know, here's the hard part for a lot of men I suspect watching this, is that it is sad that on some level women do self, they do select oftentimes from a dating app perspective, the cream of the crop.

Okay. I mean, they, because we all, we, here's the thing. When you're 50 years old, you're dating with 20-year-old eyes. Every 50-year-old [00:23:00] man wants a 20-year-old supermodel. And every woman wants their prince charming. Neither words, they're still dating with their 20-year-old eyes. And a lot of men, as we age, we start to lose our hair.

We gain a little bit belly and women get wrinkles and saggy, I won't say, you know, their breasts start to sag unless they get augmented. Um, so they, they do feel a bit marginalized. I think men feel marginalized, but women feel marginalized as well because we weren't designed to swipe to meet our partner.

That's not the way we were designed. And so dating apps in particular, in the last seven to eight years, Brent has marginalized people. I. Men are doing it and women are doing it. It's just men will swipe way more often because we, our standards for having sex is rather low. Our standard to commit is rather high, but our standard to have sex is rather low.

D Brent Dowlen: It's, it's interesting because [00:24:00] as you agree, I, I think so.

Jonathon Aslay: Okay.

D Brent Dowlen: As has changed and evolved, one of the things I benefited from is my wife had a different idea of dating than I did. She was raised with the idea of courting. So my wife and I lived on the opposite sides of the country when we were dating, we weren't dating.

We had a long distance relationship over the phone for three years.

Jonathon Aslay: Okay.

D Brent Dowlen: How did you meet? Uh, she was, I came up to spend part of the summer with my brother when I was 17. Okay. And went to the church, senior high retreat with, he helped with the youth group. And she was one of the teens in the youth group at his church.

She also would help my sister-in-law when my brother was out at sea sometimes. 'cause he was in the Navy. Okay. And so he was essentially my niece's nanny actually. So.

Jonathon Aslay: Okay. Okay.

D Brent Dowlen: Um, but we met that way and the conversation started there and just kind of continued as friends [00:25:00] and evolved to more over several years.

So by the time we actually got married, we had been talking and nothing but talking for three years.

Jonathon Aslay: Hmm.

D Brent Dowlen: Um, which I think has given us an edge on that. Right. Our relationship wasn't founded in the physical, it was founded in conversational and, uh, that intellectual knowledge of each other, spending time intellectually together.

But we've moved away right, with this whole swiping thing in the modern dating scene. Less people are going to church used to, to find somebody to find a real relationship, right? You went to somewhere and it was like me and my wife, you found them at the church or at some kind of community and we moved as a society away from those communal areas as much.

So what are the other options?

Jonathon Aslay: Well, it used to be, if you go back, I believe 50 years ago, and [00:26:00] it's an interesting graph when you see, you know, back 50 years ago, you oftentimes met in the town you lived in, in the school you went to both, you know, high school and or college in your professional environment.

Church was one of the number one places. In fact, when you added up all the places people met, it was, you know, equally divided amongst what I just shared. Now all of those are less than. 5% collectively and online dating represents 65%. So not collectively, but you know, I mean, there's a few more in there as well.

You know what was interesting about what the way we selected up until about a hundred years ago, give or take, I mean, these things started to really shift, uh, in the last 50 years is throughout history we mated within our own tribe. In other words, you, you were, you know, you were, I mean, well, let's go back a thousand years ago if you were the, you know, or, or not a thousand, but if I think of a Native [00:27:00] American, if you were Apache, you mayor, the Apache, if you imagine, you know, a Navajo, it was like within that tribe, um, you know, you typically shared the same values.

You typically shared the same culture, the same language. Everything was the same. So the relationship already had a solid commonality built in. Here we live in a melting pot of different values, different ethnicities, different cultures, different perceptions, different socioeconomic, so we're not as, as aligned as we used to be, which puts a lot more pressure on the emotional aspect of the relationship because those other things aren't there to hold the stable stability of it you met.

So, oh, and as I said earlier, with online dating, you're meeting strangers, at least in the case of your wife, you had like, you had no degrees of separation. There was like, it was like you guys were, were technically one degree of [00:28:00] separation, if you will. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and there was already built in familiarity.

So in our current environment, it's difficult because we don't, if we don't know you, how can we trust you and how can we trust that you have my best interest at heart? Well, we call it dating and we call it courting. Um. By the way, you know why it's called dating? Hmm. Because this, the word dating was replaced.

The original concept in the dictionary is holy fucking shit. Trying to figure out another human being is insane. So they said, well, let's just make up a short word for it. And we call it dating. That's a, Jonathan is, by the way, the idea with courting is a man. I mean, traditionally speaking is he knew he wanted this person as a wife.

So he did all the things to prove himself because he had that destination. I can't court someone. I don't know. I mean, I meet a woman, I'm attracted to her. I'm like, yeah, I wanna [00:29:00] have sex with her, but I don't know if I wanna be fully committed and support her and be all in with this person. So to court a person you don't know, I don't believe is a healthy way to approach it either.

We have to build some sort of foundation, and the problem is we get physically intimate. Too soon and we bond with a person. And yet physical intimacy for those of us in midlife is part of our decision making process too. So we we're in a juxtaposition, we're in a catch 22 here. Um, because I'll tell you what, folks in midlife, the one thing they don't wanna compromise is good sex.

Especially many, excuse me, especially many people who went without sex for so long in their marriages, they're like, well, I don't wanna compromise on that, so I wanna be, I wanna know that, you know, that works well without ever building a real healthy emotional foundation with another person. I mean, these are the challenges of, of many.[00:30:00]

D Brent Dowlen: So how do we start to, you said rushing in is, is kind of become defacto in midlife dating because we have certain things we don't want to give up or we've had to go without. I've known a lot of guys in sexual marriages, so how do we pump the brakes and at, at a place where we're not being connected with members of our tribe automatically, right?

We already have these pseudo bonds of commonalities. How do we start to build something and trust without rushing in too fast or without getting, like I know a lot of guys who are terrified of dating at this point.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: Because, you know, you've got, thankfully it seems to be have regressed some, but you had the Me Too movement that was really strong for a while.

Um, in the younger generations, we're seeing a lot of women who are very [00:31:00] fine with the idea of, I'm gonna marry you, I'm gonna take half your crap and leave. Yeah. Like they can go into relationships with that aspect in their mind already. So there are a lot of guys who are even, are terrified of even the thought of dating somebody.

How do we start to move in a healthy relationship or towards a healthy relationship and start to trust without jumping too far down first?

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah. You know, and to the extent that we've been, you know, to some degree, you know, for those guys that are concerned about losing half of their net worth and everything, guys, a simple prenup solves that problem.

You don't have to be worried about it. I mean, for the most part. And, um, there's a very famous divorce attorney on the u on the podcast circuit named James Sexton, who works with New York high-end people, and he is like, you would say to a lot of grief if you'd got a prenup ahead of time, but so. This is gonna require some emotional excavation.

It's gonna require knowing thyself is the first [00:32:00] thing, and what I mean mean by know thyself. It's knowing your negative patterns, your limiting beliefs, your negative self-talk, your insecurities and your fears. Once you begin a self-examination of who you are as a person, that's a great place to start.

Particularly in the romantic relationship realm. You'd wanna study books like Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller to understand something known as a love attachment style. Um, to name a few, you may wanna do some reading the book, nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg, because that teaches us how to have more compassionate communication.

You may wanna do some inner work outside of lifting weights at the gym and getting your manicures and doing all that other stuff. So you look good on the outside is doing emotional work on the inside. I think the next important thing, Brent, is know your motive, like. What is your motive for dating? Are you, in other words, look at whenever you're across the table from someone, you don't [00:33:00] know if they're your wife or not, but do you have a solid motive that you want to be in a fully committed relationship?

Or do you wanna just see how it goes? A see how it goes? Laissez-faire, cavalier way of dating will lead to disappointment. It's like I, it's like I wanna go from Los Angeles to New York. Well then get a compass. Get a, get a, get a, get a, you know, Thomas brother guy. Get yourself Google Maps. You know, if you wanna get from point A to point B, but if you have no idea how to do that, just going, oh, look at the sun and see where it's at.

Then you're gonna be struggling. So have a plan of where you wanna be. And there's nothing wrong with that, by the way. I know every dating coach will tell you never interview someone on a date. I'm saying, fuck that shit. Interrogate people on a date now. You can do it in a fun way, and interrogation simply is about getting to the truth.

When a detective interrogates a [00:34:00] suspect, they're trying to get to the truth of what actually happened. So I'm saying it a bit tongue in cheek for those guys listening. I'm saying it for fun, but the idea is ask really good questions and recognize the deception of chemistry. We have all, I mean, I hope most of us have grown up to figure out that chemistry does not equal relationship success.

And while it's important to maintain a level of attraction and ro you know, tension and all that kind of stuff, that doesn't create relationship success. You know what? Career relationship success, being an emotional grownup, knowing how to communicate for and to advocate for your needs, having healthy boundaries and knowing how to resolve conflict without being right.

That's just some of the simple form, no, that there's nothing simple about what I just said, but I'm simplistically giving it to you. But that's not simple. In fact, quite frankly, Brent, I will tell you, relationships are not for the faint of heart. They are [00:35:00] not. They are complicated riddled with emotional discords, and you have to be a ninja these days to navigate it with any sense of happiness.

Alright, I'm done Pontificating.

D Brent Dowlen: Now, you know, I, I hope most of our listeners, a lot of guys at one point in their life had that super crazy, batshit crazy hot, passionate relationship that was all fire and, and no, uh, no substance, really.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: And hopefully most guys have at least gone through that once, so they're not making that mistake if they're actually looking for a more solid relationship.

Right. I, I don't know any guy who wouldn't say, yeah, that was fun, but like I, I dated a girl before my wife and it was crazy. It was furious and we would've ended up in horrible places if we had taken our relationship any more serious because there was a lot of passion, but it was [00:36:00] all fast burn fire, and we were just bad for each other in the long run.

It was a lot of fun. But it was a lot of, like, we would've ended up in prison or dead or something. It would've been, it, it was that kind of just crazy. It's like, yeah, you're a lot of fun, but we probably are really negative for each other. Um, and most guys get that out of their system at some point. But yeah, hopefully we're, but

Jonathon Aslay: there's also a, the younger demographic right now, and I'm talking about those Gen Zs and millennials, you know, um, a lot of them haven't had a date in years.

You know, they haven't put themselves out there. A lot of it is their own apathy and their own lack of, of, and their naivity to some degree. Mm-hmm. You know, being in a relationship is not a God-given. Right. Please. Well, first off, I don't mean from a biblical standpoint, it's not a Right, okay. It's a, it's a, it's, um.

What is it? It's a [00:37:00] privilege to some degree. Um, but I, there's a significant percentage of guys listening to this that probably haven't had a date in years, if not decades. Um, and I, and I feel for you, you know, I, and I wanna say this to you guys that I. You know, part of it is your own apathy. I mean, look, if you wanna, by the way, coming back to online dating, if you put together some really fucking awesome looking photographs, you're gonna get a shit load more swipes than holding up that fish.

And, you know, and an out of focus, you know, sloppy hairdo, po picture that you post of yourself, you know, it's like shit. Or you know, what's it quality in quality out, you know, it's like, you know, if you're putting out mediocre, then you're gonna get mediocre results. And, and quite frankly, and I'll say this, Brent, most humans live in the delusion, oh, I'm not the problem, it's everybody else.

No, you gotta fucking look in the mirror and say, what can I do? And this isn't about getting [00:38:00] buff and looking like Andrew Tate or anything like that. Not, I don't think he's that good looking of a guy anyway, uh, you know, um. Um, but it's about, you know, curating the best version of yourself. I want you to think of it like marketing, you know, like, how can I market myself the best I can to at least create options?

And I know a lot of guys feel like there are no options, but you're not really making that much effort either. So, you know, you gotta look in the mirror.

D Brent Dowlen: I think, uh, you can tell

Jonathon Aslay: I'm opinionated, right? No,

D Brent Dowlen: I, that's, that's never would've guessed. I think, uh, social media becoming so broad spread has done all of its disservice, right?

Because it has slanted more of used to, you had to have a little more realistic expectation because you interacted, you saw people around you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you didn't just see [00:39:00] everybody's a moments. Right. And, and that's what we all throw on social media is those a moments, right? The, the very best shiny makeup's.

Right? You know, I just got outta a workout. The guy just, I just got outta workout and I haven't eaten in the last four, eight hours. I'm looking good right now. Right? We set these perfect moments in our lives and we've started to filter people through looking at those a moments instead of just looking at our community and the world around us and seeing people in real time and in real life.

And so we've started to think, oh, no. Like I know from a gym perspective, so I, I've been a personal trainer for years. Less than 3% of the population has visible abs.

Jonathon Aslay: Is that what it is? Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: Less than 3% of the population has visible. I paint

Jonathon Aslay: mine on

D Brent Dowlen: right. And that's about as close as a lot of people are ever going to get.

Um, bodybuilders don't have visible [00:40:00] abs 90% of the time. Yeah. They strip, they, they cut hard for a show. Right. And so, but we see this on social media all the time, and we don't think about the filters and we don't think about blah, you know, this is their perfect moment that was visible. Their abs were visible for two days in the last 365.

Yeah. Uh, and so it started to skew our perception of reality in dealing with actual flawed human beings. And now we start to, I know, I, I have a friend who, he's like, I'm ugly. No girl's ever gonna look at me. And he's on social media regularly. And it's like you are looking at your ideal like dreams because that's who you're following on social media.

You're either following your friends. You're following that super hot Instagram model or whatever, right? Yeah. You're not interacting and judging on real time, and so you're looking at that [00:41:00] ideal, you're not looking at reality, but he has convinced himself that there are so many good looking people, that he's just ugly and you know, he's, he's not Brad Pitt, but it's like dude is, is really not that bad.

He's got a lot to offer. He's very successful. He's a very gentle kind. He like, he wants to treat a woman well and to devote his life to a woman, but he is also convinced that he has no hope of it at this point.

Jonathon Aslay: Well, certainly mindset plays a huge role in this, and what you're describing in this particular person's case is his mindset.

And if you don't believe you are worthy of it or you don't think you would attract it, well then that's what your reality is going to be, and you'll find evidence of that. I, I did wanna point something out for the guys listening and, you know, because to some degree I begged on guys a little bit, let me just beg on women for a second.

And that is women [00:42:00] because they are approached, I mean, so frequently and especially the more the attractive the woman, the more she'll be approached. Um, she, some women have created an overinflated sense of their worth that certainly exists out there. And certainly even the woman who isn't as attractive as those, you know, those Instagram models and that sort of thing because she gets, because men will men's barrier.

To sex is lower than their barrier to commitment. Okay. I mean, so it might create an overinflated sense for those women who aren't as attractive. But the real challenge, and it's coming back to what you experienced with your wife, you connected at, in a, but you were much younger too. So, I mean, we're, we're talking to a demographic of the 40 above for the moment, or at least that's what I'm talking to, is that, you know, you guys had this common connection, you had this experience, you spent all [00:43:00] this time developing, sharing your feelings with one another.

And, and by the way, I wouldn't advocate for that, by the way. And let me explain why I wanna say that. At midlife. You, you meet someone online, you start, you live in Los Angeles, they live in New Jersey for argument's sake. Um, you start communicating, you're talking incessant communication, incessant, oh my God, you're so wonderful.

You're so, we can't wait to meet each other. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you try to develop a relationship with one another and it's, it's, uh, you're gonna have sex right away because that tension has been built up, but you haven't built any real foundation because it's artificial. Until you actually start doing shit together.

It is through the doing shit together that we actually get to know a person's character, not over the phone. That's artificial. And god forbid it's text messaging. I've witnessed people spend years texting someone whom they've never FaceTime with, [00:44:00] never talked on the phone, and they actually believe they have a relationship with this person.

Oftentimes it's a catfish anyway, so, you know, and it's just keeping them company, well, you'd be better off doing it with chat GPT, because at least chat GPT is a yes man or a yes woman, you know, at least it'll tell you everything you wanna hear. Um, so, um, but coming back to that mindset piece, you know, I've seen.

Some of the ugliest guys on the planet at Attract, and that's so mean. But you know, Billy Joel wasn't that attractive. I mean, yeah, he landed Christie Brinkley, uh, you know, look at Rick O Casey. I mean, he was with Paulina Kova. Talk about, now mind you, he was a singer and everything like that, you know, I mean, these guys had wealth.

I get that piece, but they weren't all that attractive. Even, even, um, even, uh, Dan Aykroyd had, um, uh, oh God, what's her name? She's my favorite. Um, um, she escapes me right now. Um, [00:45:00] but um, her name was Sonny on that show with, um, anyway, um, the mindset. That, that's that when you have a mindset that I am worthy, I am lovable, I'm likable.

When you have that mindset, and it's not about physical looks. Now, don't get me wrong, we all have a, a type that we're attracted to. Some of that is instinctual, biological, that sort of thing. But if we can let go of the egoic part of it and say, who can I connect with at a heart center level? Um, you know, that's what will be the more of an enriching life than trying to get the Instagram model.

And believe me, you know, a lot of those young girls that are doing that today, and again, we're speaking to an older demographic, but for those, for this conversation really quickly, you know, they are emotionally hurting on the inside. They're not necessarily all that capable of being in a relationship.

Kind of like the bat shit. Crazy you were talking [00:46:00] about. Um, and I'm not, listen, I don't wanna pigeonhole every woman who's doing that. I'm just saying some.

D Brent Dowlen: That's fair. So Jonathan, let's, let's move in a direction, okay. Okay. With the discussion towards how can the men right now who are listening to this start to pull themselves into a more positive spot, start positive spot to, you know, get themselves ready for a healthy relationship.

Well, they can do it on their side of it, and then maybe move towards, you know, some ideas to actually meet people and start to build a solid foundation if that's the direction they're going.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah, I think this is a great question and I think we're beginning to see the evolution of that dating apps are actually on the decline to some [00:47:00] degree at least.

So there's such burnout and fatigue that, um, you know, there are people actually making effort out in the real world. Uh, it's funny that you have to say it, that, or we mean organically. I think first and foremost, I'm a big proponent of everybody doing personal development, self-help, spiritual work and therapy, just for their own.

Shoring up their own emotional, you know, IQ, if you will, because the more you develop a solid sovereignty within yourself, and I don't mean ego sovereignty, I'm talking about heart-centered sovereignty that comes from a place of compassionate empathy for yourself and others is one of the first things to start.

And, and, and to the extent seeing a therapist. I know we're talking about spending some money, but it's gonna pay dividends later on down the road. That's number one. Get a clear idea of who really is compatible with you. Like really assess your lifestyle and say who would actually fit? [00:48:00] By the way, Brent, most of the reason why midlife relationships fail, it's because couples don't know how to blend their lives together.

They're, they each are kind of set in their own ways. Women are set in their own ways. Men are set in their own ways. We have to learn to recognize that a relationship is a co-creative experience. When you're in midlife, it's different. In your 20, when you met your wife, it was different because you guys were a blank sheet of paper.

But if you were out in the dating marketplace today, and believe me, I can already tell you'd be a fish outta water, uh, or a deer in the headlights to some degree. And I don't mean that disrespectful, by the way. No, it's absolutely interesting. Tongue, cheek. Um, but having an idea of who would actually compatible with you by first really identifying like.

What's, when I say core values, like what is something core about you that you need to know? Somebody else shares that value with you? And I'll give an example from my own playbook per personal development, self-help, spiritual work and [00:49:00] therapy is like so fundamental my life that if someone isn't actively doing it on a daily basis, I would, you know, we would be completely opposite to one another.

And that's not fair to say completely opposite, but I want someone who embraces that. That would be our common purpose and our common passion. You have to find that piece of common purpose, common passion first. Know it for yourself. Okay. And I don't mean skiing, you know, 12 days a year, that's 12 outta 365 days.

And I'm just picking a sport like that. Um, having that sense. And then to the extent putting yourself out there, you know, I. I, I'm, you know, to those that are religious, pray, okay, ask God for help. You know, for those who are spiritual, ask God, universe or spirit for help. Um, you can ask for guidance from a, from a spiritual perspective.

That's one thing. Um, to the extent putting yourself out there, [00:50:00] you know, certainly cultivating relationships with friends, asking friends to, you know, introduce you to people. I actually think still social media is still a great way because most, like the, of the few hundred people that are on my social media that are, that are my friends, in other words, people are, there are people, I, I, I believe I know most of 'em on my Facebook page, even though it's, I mean, or at least I know a big percentage of it, I still think through social media, still a good way to connect with people because it's a, it's kind of a testing the waters way to meet somebody.

Um, proximity makes a big difference. And let me explain. Proximity, meaning how close somebody is, uh, creates continuity. Continuity builds trust. In other words, the more time you can physically be in each other's orbit, the more frequently you can be together. It builds a more trust with another person, because [00:51:00] depending being dependent on our thumbs, by the way, Brent, we humans weren't designed to communicate with our thumbs.

Thumbs. Were just only for what time do you get, what time you coming home from work kind of thing. Where are you lost? Here are the directions. That's what our thumbs are for we, 80 to 90% of communication is nonverbal. It has everything to do outside of talking or seeing, well seeing is a part of it too.

Um, but. And so I don't wanna eliminate online altogether. It's about being more strategic. It's about being more aware, like really understanding who would be compatible with you. But we still hyperfocus on attraction and that's gonna yield us poor results.

D Brent Dowlen: Blending, blending together two lives is blending together two lives is difficult even when you're young.

Yeah. You know, starting out, I, I think so I was [00:52:00] 21 and my wife was 19 when we got married.

Jonathon Aslay: Okay.

D Brent Dowlen: Right. Babies. Yeah. Blending back in the day when that used to happen. Uh, blending two lives that are still that new, like at this point, we've been together longer than we'd lived without each other. Oh,

Jonathon Aslay: interesting.

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah, we, we've crossed that point in our marriage where we had been married longer than we actually lived apart before we met each other or got married. Oh

Jonathon Aslay: yeah, I get it. I get it.

D Brent Dowlen: And so, you know, but blending lives when you're that young and that blank is already complex. Like that's, that's already one of the barriers in having healthy marriage, doing it later in life when you both are very established and you have your routines.

And, um, I know a, a couple that, like, there's 20 years difference in their age.

Jonathon Aslay: Okay.

D Brent Dowlen: And the reason it worked was he was very set in his life, but because he was [00:53:00] set and comfortable in his life and he, he lived a very simple life. He didn't wanna do fancy things. He was very happy living his day. She fit right in.

'cause he was like, no, I'm, I'm glad you have your life. I'm glad you have your things. I'm glad you and I just enjoy being with you. And it works, right. Their relationship has gone on now 24 years, uh, or 23 years. It works for them, but it took a both very mature individuals who are like, I have my life and I'm comfortable with that.

And we like being together and we're cool. You can have your life. You can do the things you do. Did either

Jonathon Aslay: one of them have children? Nope. See that? See that's what throws the monkey wrench for most of people in midlife. As I said earlier, 75% of singles over 45 years old are divorced. That's anecdotal, but I think it's pretty close to accurate.

Right. Um, of [00:54:00] that, I would venture to say, and this is just me riffing off the top of my head, 75% of those people have children. And, you know, the TV show Brady Bunch really gave us a deluded sense of what it's like to blend two lives together. I mean, talk about the fantasy, you know, that Carol Brady had had Alice to cook, clean and do everything else.

She had it easy and their biggest issue was six kids had to share one bathroom. Um. But blending lives is so complicated in midlife that we have to recognize that a big part of compatibility is that capacity to blend lives with another person, but also to be aligned with the other person on your core values.

And I don't mean, you know, trust and integrity as a value. I'm talking about what matters most to us. And by the way, and you may not be aware of this, or you may be, but you know, in the last six years, you know, political differences has been one of the [00:55:00] primary friction points in the dating process that didn't exist.

I, you know, didn't exist 10 years ago, but now it's like prevalent to like, we, we almost have a tribalism way of approaching relationships because of that. Um. Understanding compatibility, like really understanding who would be a good fit for me would be a, a question I'd ask myself. But that requires knowing who you are.

And sadly, most humans operate on an unconscious level outside of the egoic way of viewing who we are.

D Brent Dowlen: It's one of the reasons I always, always ask at the beginning, who in your own words is right? Because so many people don't have a clear understanding of who they are or they haven't defined themselves.

And hey, I,

Jonathon Aslay: can I modify my answer? Yeah. Yeah. So [00:56:00] I'm clearly aware that I am, um, on some level I said a spiritual being, have a human experience. That was the one aspect of it. But I'm a complex, uh, dysfunctional human being who happens to be self-aware, who's working on themselves, who's kind of aware of his insecurities, fears, his negative patterns, his limiting beliefs, his judgments to some degree, and how that affects my life, particularly in interpersonal relations, where it creates friction.

And I try to be self-aware enough to own my shit, to own my blind spots, try to, I miss the mark frequently, but I take ownership. I take ownership in my life when I genuinely hurt someone else's feelings or do something inconsiderate. I take ownership in my life. And, and, and that's partly more than that answer I gave you before.

D Brent Dowlen: We're all a beautiful mess, but most people don't [00:57:00] actually ever stop to try and put it together and say, this is who I am. Yeah. And so I always like to see when I, when I get a guest like, okay, how, how does this person see themselves? How do they feel about themselves Right off the bat? Right. Because most of us don't actually stop and ask that question of ourselves.

Jonathon Aslay: Well, they usually answer it by what we do and not who we are. Right. You know, that's, that's the, particularly for men in particular because men throughout history identify with their professional life as their identity. I mean, that's throughout history. Mm-hmm. And so, um, and you know, I've gone through some gigantic, um, um.

Tragedies in my li and I'm only using the word tragedy, not from an overly dramatic perspective, but I've experienced some real loss and pain in my life over the years. One particular was the dismantling of my identity when I lost my high-end corporate [00:58:00] job. I got wiped out in the market crash of 2008 and I went through a divorce all within a span of two years.

And my identity was obliterated to the point where I went to bed for six years wishing I didn't wake up. So I know what deep depression feels like and you know, until you've been in the pit of despair and understand what that truly feels like. Uh, and then in my case, clawing my way out through, I'll be candid with you, Brent.

I became a dating relationship coach 'cause I was addicted to online dating. I've had, I've had over 501st dates. I. In, you know, the last 20 years. I mean, I've, I've done more than most men will do in 10 lifetimes. Um, and, and, um, and it's just through those experiences that I actually eventually helped women try to figure out what men are all about.

And that's kind of evolved into my business was through my addiction of online dating. [00:59:00]

D Brent Dowlen: It's always interesting to see how people got where they are.

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: Right? The, the journey never starts where you think it's gonna start, right? You, you, it starts somewhere and all of a sudden you look back several years later and you're like, huh,

Jonathon Aslay: yeah, I'll share something interesting with you.

So lately men have been reaching out to me, young men in their mid, you know, thirties, forties, even fifties. And it's interesting 'cause I, I'm thinking of one gentleman in particular and, and we've, it's more like life coaching. It's not even, his relationship is a cluster fuck. I mean, like, dude, you know what I'm like, do her the favor and break up with her.

Um, but they're in a trauma bond together. But you know what he wants? He just wants someone to talk about. His feelings and, and not a therapist, but I'm like a big brother or an uncle to, you know, from an emotional standpoint. And I said, well, why don't you talk to your friends like this? And it's, they go, 'cause my friends will use this shit against me, and you're [01:00:00] helping me push past it from a, from a wise point of view, this was him saying this, you know, I'm like, he goes, you helped me look at my stuff from a wise point of view, because I know you've been in the trenches, Jonathan.

And, and I've crawled through glass on an emotional level and we men are thirsty to open up on a heart-centered level. We want to feel safe. I had a 67-year-old gentleman at my home recently. We, we did a workshop together. And he's like, I've never opened up to another man the way I did you. And I'm not saying this from, you know what I mean?

He was talking about from an emotional level. He goes, I've never been safe to open up. And I'm like, and I'm like, I don't know what my gift is. I just happen to be good at this kind of thing. Um, and he, he poured more out in eight hours than he did in the 67 years he's been on this planet. And that guy fucking went through hell in his childhood.

I mean, some real shit. So, you know, we all have a story. We have a, we, we [01:01:00] all have a hero's journey. You know, if we are able to actually look at it from, from the, you know, from the audience member of the, what's going on on the screen, we all have a hero's journey and we should, you know, and it's, and we should celebrate all of the little victories that we've had in life on an emotional level.

And most guys don't even have a forum to do that in, you know? Um, and I just wanna encourage guys in particular, you know, we're, we, you know, there's a lot of bad press out there, but it's, it's, it's the exception. The exception, not the rule, it's just the exception gets a lot more noise. You know, for you guys listening, I, I know you're a good person.

You're not, you know, you don't genuinely wanna hurt anyone or anything like that. Um, but I, I'm gonna promise you this, if you do the inner work over one year, and I don't mean listening to a Jordan Peterson podcast. I mean, actually, not that there's anything wrong with listening to [01:02:00] podcasts. I mean, there are great podcasts out there, but really do the inner work.

Look at your childhood, maybe seek a therapist, work with a counselor, work with a coach for one year. It will change your life in ways you can't even imagine.

D Brent Dowlen: Jonathan, what's the next, what's the next big project for you?

Jonathon Aslay: You know, I'm shift. Thank you for asking, and thank you for allowing me to be. I, I'm in my, I'm in my preacher mode, so thank you for letting me preach a little bit.

Uh, and, and I'm glad, I'm grateful to talk to guys too. Actually, the next evolution is, I'm, I'm, I'm tweaking. I'm trying to pivot to a, I don't know if it's life coaching. It's like dating a relationship starts the conversation. But I'm not a traditional coach. I mean, my, I'm my own Tony Robbins in a way, and I don't know what, I don't know how to label it or brand it or, you know, uh, you know, uh, advertise for it.

But [01:03:00] I think I'm a really good person to shoot the shit with. Okay, now, now, and what I mean by that is I, I'm a good person to hold space for someone. And to help cultivate out of them what's inside of them. I don't know how to brand that or how to articulate that. And I've been working with chat GPT, but even then it's still like, that's the evolution and I wanna work with more men.

Um, the other thing is, and I didn't say this earlier, I'm into psychedelic therapy, so I do a shitload of that. Um, I believe that we can access portals of our consciousness in ways that psychedelics can open places that, um, just standard meditation doesn't do. And so I'm a big proponent of that. I know I'm, you know, talking underground for a second, but I, I'm hoping someday it becomes mainstream.

Um, but I'm a big proponent that when we start to work on [01:04:00] ourselves, we just happen to have happier lives.

D Brent Dowlen: I would agree entirely. Where's the best place for people to connect with you?

Jonathon Aslay: Uh, either I I'm sure you're gonna post a link somewhere. Yeah. Ideally my, you can take my name, Jonathan Asley. Put it in Google.

My YouTube channel will come up. I mean, I produ, I produce five videos a week on my channel. I love, I'm like, I love being on camera and just riffing like this. Ah, uh, then there's my website, but just go to YouTube and start following me. If I resonate with you, then send a message to my support, you know, my, my, my whatever inbox through my website and, you know, you can schedule a call with me and we could see if working with a coach is right for you.

D Brent Dowlen: Are you ready to know what a proper term is for a collective group of unicorns?

Jonathon Aslay: Yeah. What is it?

D Brent Dowlen: You guessed A glitter. The answer is it's a blessing. [01:05:00]

Jonathon Aslay: It's a blessing. Got it. That's number C, I think, or it's letter C. Excuse me. Yeah, it was

D Brent Dowlen: C, right? It's, I know everybody actually gives a crap right now. Out of everything we talked about.

I know everybody was holding out for that one. Are

Jonathon Aslay: we talking unicorns, women, or are we talking unicorns? The actual, you know, actual

D Brent Dowlen: unicorns.

Jonathon Aslay: Difficult. Okay. It's a blessing. Interesting. I

D Brent Dowlen: don't know. I don't know why

Jonathon Aslay: Glitter, you know, it's funny, I was remembering, I was remembering the, um, the Shazam second movie, and there's a scene where unicorns came out and there was a rainbow at one point, and I was like, that's what made me think of glitter was rainbow.

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah. The one, that's what went through my head. Scary. Huh? The, the unicorns and Shazam were a little scary. I was like, yeah, those were scary.

Jonathon Aslay: But there was a moment where she took out her Skittles. Skittles, and that's what made me think of Rainbow and that they, yeah, no, those, those unicorns were a little bit more like monster corns, but, uh,

D Brent Dowlen: I like that version better.

It just, yeah. But yeah, the, the ad placement on [01:06:00] that one, like, I was sitting watching that with my best friend and they threw out the Skittles. I was like, you're kidding me, right? How much does pay for that? But I

Jonathon Aslay: dunno, it was the rainbow. It was that scene that popped in my head. Not the animal itself, but that's the scene when you asked me that and I thought of glitter.

D Brent Dowlen: That totally makes sense. Jonathan, if our audience heard nothing else today, what is the last thing you wanna leave 'em with?

Jonathon Aslay: Hey, you know what? Um, I'm gonna leave it with this about, I'm gonna talk about love for a second. Um, you know, and this is in the realm of dating a relationships, but I mean, I think we all wanna feel loved and love can feel scary.

And so I just want, you know, love is a risk, okay? It is a risk to put your heart out there to make this effort, but it's still the best game in town. So love is a risk. It's the best game in town.

D Brent Dowlen: Guys for myself and Jonathan, thanks for hanging out with us today. Be better [01:07:00] tomorrow because of what you do today.

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