Human Trafficking Awareness: Saving Innocence - Jessica Midkiff

[00:00:00] David Dowlen: Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential and grow into the men? We dream of being all taking care of our responsibilities, working, being good husbands fathers, and still take care of ourselves. That's the question. And this podcast will help you with those answers.

[00:00:20] My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible man podcast. On today's show, we're talking about human trafficking, specifically child sex trafficking. It's a difficult subject, but you can make a difference. And as men who are striving to be your best, it's incumbent upon us to do so. I have author Jessica midriff, Midkiff.

[00:00:36] I'm sure I just butchered of "Men! Fight for ME!" On today because she's not just an author, but she's an active soldier. This fight from victim to lawyer. She's going to share with us how as men, we can help fight this horrific crime. Jessica, welcome to the fallible man podcast.

[00:00:53] Jessica Midkiff: Thank you so much for having me, let's get this going

[00:00:58] David Dowlen: and it's nice to finally think up in person.

[00:01:01] It took a little finagling, but here we are. I'm so excited about this. Uh, you know, we started this conversation with Alan a week ago, and then we had you guys on the live stream Monday. That was an amazing chance for people just to touch base and do some Q and a with you guys. But you have an incredible perspective that just it's a hundred percent authentic that you can offer to men that no one else is going to be able to offer.

[00:01:32] So before we dive into that, tell me who Jessica Midkiff is now.

[00:01:38] Jessica Midkiff: Ooh, so who I am now? Like where do I begin? Um, so I'm Jessica and I work for saving it. Uh, Alan spoke about it in the previous podcast. It's a human trafficking agency. Basically we help kids escape the life and kind of help them to integrate back into regular society.

[00:02:00] Um, I'm a survivor of commercial sexual exploitation, or a lot of people will refer to it as human trafficking. Um, I've been a, uh, survivor advocate for over 10 years. Um, and as of right now, I am a program development specialist. I helped to build out programs to utilize for hiring processes of survivors and allies.

[00:02:28] Um, you know, uh, programs for the kids, um, at different Capac, like different places in their lives. Um, as well as some other things. And I work as a liaison between the departments in my agency and some of our community partners. Um, I'm also a. My daughter is an adult. She's in the Navy. Woo-hoo single mom and I'm just a big old helper.

[00:02:52] I like to help people. So I think that's the best way I could describe myself. Um, my story is not quite finished being written, so I'm just looking forward to the next thing.

[00:03:04] David Dowlen: Excellent. She's in the Navy. Very lots of respect for military. My brother was Navy for nine years. So

[00:03:15] Jessica Midkiff: respect, respect.

[00:03:18] David Dowlen: He loved it.

[00:03:19] It just got a little much, he's got three daughters and after the third one was born, it was, it was just a little much for him cause he was on subs. So he'd be out for six to nine months at a time

[00:03:31] Jessica Midkiff: or he was heavy duty.

[00:03:33] David Dowlen: And so it was just a little, a little much, uh, for his wife to be raising three kids, mostly on her own with him out at sea all the time.

[00:03:43] Um, fast attack submarines. He was on those for years. They don't have a schedule.

[00:03:47] Jessica Midkiff: So

[00:03:49] David Dowlen: he's gotten phone calls at two o'clock in the morning that said be on the dock in an hour. And when he left, it was no idea how long he'd be gone and when he'd be back and he couldn't tell his wife anything. And, uh, he moved to the bigger subs, the missile subs, and they have a six month on six month off, but it was just a little, little much.

[00:04:08] So.

[00:04:10] Jessica Midkiff: Yeah, no, he's tough. He, he, he held it held on for nine years. That's really tough. I know of a few, uh, submarine. Um, what do you call them? There? It is. Thank you. Um, and they're going through all their little steps on my daughter's friends. They all kind of call and confide in me a little bit, you know, what they can, what they can and, you know, I know it's really, really tough.

[00:04:34] And then I know actually a couple of folks that were on the submarines back in the day, So like, that's a really hard place to be. The ships are bad enough. They're hard enough, but the subs are hard.

[00:04:44] David Dowlen: Yeah. It's a different

[00:04:46] Jessica Midkiff: kind of life. Oh yes. The loot to your brother.

[00:04:50] David Dowlen: So, Jessica, I got to ask you a heavy, heavy hearted question here.

[00:04:54] What is your favorite ice cream?

[00:04:57] Jessica Midkiff: Oh, can I like mix them a

[00:05:00] David Dowlen: little? Absolutely. Very personal.

[00:05:03] Jessica Midkiff: Okay. So thank you. So I really I'm old school, so I love chocolate chip and butter pecan mixed together. I know that's weird, but roll with me. And then, um, there's another ice cream that I really, really love from this place I go to.

[00:05:21] Um, it is a, um, for rare overshare ice cream, which is really, really good. Yeah. Yeah. What's yours.

[00:05:31] David Dowlen: Uh, see, I can't say anything about odd, cause my favorite thing is like a rich dark chocolate ice cream. And a glass with Guinness poured over it. Like a Guinness float. Yeah. With chocolate ice cream. I'm gonna have to try that.

[00:05:44] I'm again, this guy. So

[00:05:47] Jessica Midkiff: I'm going to happen wise and girl, but I can, I can float with the, I can float with the Guinness.

[00:05:53] David Dowlen: If I, if I can see through it, I don't drink it. I'm stouts and porters only.

[00:05:58] Jessica Midkiff: Oh, you're like super hardcore guineas. Yeah.

[00:06:02] David Dowlen: No, nothing but super dark beers. If you can see if you can start to see light through it.

[00:06:06] When I hold it up to a light, it's too light for me.

[00:06:09] Jessica Midkiff: Oh my goodness. I'm going to keep that in mind. Like it's too, like, no, I don't want it, but I'm gonna so super dark chocolate Guinness over

[00:06:20] David Dowlen: like a Guinness float instead of a root beer float, but the chocolate ice cream and the Guinness, it like makes this super smooth creamy.

[00:06:28] Rich. It's incredible.

[00:06:30] Jessica Midkiff: No, I'm really going to try it. So I'll be messaging you.

[00:06:37] David Dowlen: My we'll open up a whole new world. I'm telling you, okay.

[00:06:40] Jessica Midkiff: You know what, that's what I'm about. So like, it's all good. I'm about to try this. So you just kind of put me off. You're like, no, no, no half, no blue moons. No, none of that Guinness.

[00:06:54] David Dowlen: I was raised with a lot to be very respectful. So like, if I'm at a friend's house and they're like, Hey, have a beer man. I'm like, sure. I love bud light. I'll drink it. But I was raised, uh, my father was a minister for 47 years. And so I was raised going to people's houses, have lunch with the preacher's family all the time.

[00:07:18] And so I learned to eat anything that was put in front of me. And I'm still the same way. If someone asked me over to have a drink or something, Uh, honestly, I'd rather drink gasoline, but sure. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:30] Jessica Midkiff: Like just to be good. Okay. PK. I got you. You're a PK for sure.

[00:07:35] David Dowlen: I'm the troublemaker.

[00:07:37] Jessica Midkiff: I'm a preacher's granddaughter.

[00:07:39] David Dowlen: Okay. You feel me then? Yeah. It's a whole nother breed and is,

[00:07:47] Jessica Midkiff: but I kind of know who's placed not to go to, I'll just be like, oh, I ate before I came or something. So,

[00:07:56] David Dowlen: well, when I was the kid, you don't have much choice right

[00:08:00] Jessica Midkiff: now, wherever they go. It's like have a seat. If they offer you something, be polite.

[00:08:08] Don't embarrass me.

[00:08:11] David Dowlen: Yeah. I had a lot of really nasty food for that. My wife was appalled to find out that I absolutely hated a dish. Your mom made after we got married. I always, I always. My wife and I've been married for 21 years now. And I always ate it and made a big deal about it because her mom's not a great cook, but my, my mom and her were talking one day and sh he's like, oh, my wife told her like, oh, Sheila, she loves my mom.

[00:08:40] He loves my mom's meatloaf. And my mom just laughed. She's like, no, he doesn't. He hates meatloaf. I know he, he just, you know, no, he, he really hates it. He's just too polite to say otherwise I taught him. Well,

[00:08:55] Jessica Midkiff: yeah, he's just polite. It's okay.

[00:09:00] David Dowlen: Oh, I do is cross. No, just grows. It's a giant hamburger with too much.

[00:09:08] Catch-up

[00:09:10] Jessica Midkiff: I understand. I make an alternative. So I make an alternative. It's a Turkey wine with gravy and I stuff it with veggies. You don't eat ground Turkey either.

[00:09:22] No Turkey,

[00:09:23] David Dowlen: none in my house.

[00:09:25] Jessica Midkiff: Chicken,

[00:09:26] David Dowlen: chicken, fish, pork chop, chop. All right. Heavy meat-eater heavy meat-eater but I worked at a Turkey plant when I was 19.

[00:09:39] I've worked in, I've worked around slaughterhouses. They don't bother me. The Turkey plant. I worked there for three weeks. I haven't been able to eat Turkey since.

[00:09:46] Jessica Midkiff: Okay. So don't tell me

[00:09:51] David Dowlen: now they're way off track here,

[00:09:54] Jessica Midkiff: but it's okay. We got to get the lights out there a bit more.

[00:09:58] David Dowlen: Exactly. So you already told us a little bit about what you do is saving innocence. And one of the things that really stuck out to me with y'all's program is the fact that you have a, I hate to call it a rehab plan, but I mean, that's basically what it is, right.

[00:10:14] You're helping these young people. Re-integrate into what should be a more normal world.

[00:10:23] Jessica Midkiff: Yeah. I, you know, I had never thought of like a title for it. It's crazy. Cause yeah, I mean, technically you could say, um, but I've always kind of pictured it as like how family should be when, when someone's gone through something, you just kind of walk with them, you know, walk with them through it and surround them and care about them and love them and support them, you know, through their stuff.

[00:10:46] Um, and I mean, that's how we kind of function or I'm not even gonna say kind of, we do function like that at saving innocence. Um, the staff, we function as a family, we have great times together. We also argue like family, you know, like we do everything like that. The kids see the family unit and they're treated as family too.

[00:11:04] So, you know, we're really relational. Right. You know, because a lot of our kids that go through what they go through, the relationship they have is with. Not with someone that's healthy. And so we try to literally model what healthy relationships look like with men and women and other girls. And you know what I mean?

[00:11:26] And so, yeah, the technical technical rehab, but it's just family unit,

[00:11:32] David Dowlen: you know, and that was, I, that's why I didn't want to use the term necessarily. It has some harsh connotations for some people. Uh, but I liked that fact that there's a plan because so many people say, I want to help. Or you read about, we, we pull these kids out of this horrible situation, but that's the start.

[00:11:52] What, what happens from there? Because I worked with, uh, over the years, I was a youth minister at one point, and I worked with a lot of fringe kids, high-risk kids. And, you know, that was things I have people telling me. He's like, oh, we got to do something for this kid. Like, okay. But what are you prepared for to do for this kid?

[00:12:13] It's not enough to just change their immediate life. Right. That's that's the beginning of it. And a lot of people will miss that even in more adult situations. Right. Uh, alcoholic alcoholism, stopping drinking is the beginning of a journey.

[00:12:31] Right?

[00:12:32] Jessica Midkiff: Yeah. Look, continue on the steps. Continue for the rest of your life.

[00:12:37] I'm happy you actually brought that up. And so I don't like to compare it to, you know, I don't like to compare it, but to give people like a scale, right? It's like once you've had an addiction or once you've been exposed to something that you have to keep doing in order to survive or whatever it is or cope, you know, that's something that you have to live with for the rest of your life.

[00:12:58] And so, you know, we're taking it on and we're not perfect. But we're taking something along with these kids. We're not rescuing them. We're not saving them. We're literally walking with them. We're actually supporting them. And I mean, sometimes we do have to do an actual rescue, um, where the kid, it's probably like a near death situation or, you know, whatever the case is.

[00:13:20] But for a lot of the, I mean, all of it is definitely tied to this child could die at any moment, but there's like different levels. And so we retrieve the kids, we get a kid, we get a call, we pick them up and we start to build the relationship. We start to walk within and part of the, the, the part after like, you know, helping them to get out and helping to kind of get them through the first steps of like being able to sleep somewhere, eat, get medical attention and all these different things.

[00:13:49] The next part is too, is that we do have a plan because it's not going to be easy for this kid. And the biggest thing is now we need to try to show you and help you and guide you to live with this. You know, in a healthy manner for the possibly for the rest of your life, you know what I mean? You have to be able to deal with it as a survivor myself, my trauma will never go away.

[00:14:12] It will never go away, you know, but what I can say is I have therapy. I have a support system, I have different things set up, you know, I haven't stopped all my bad coping mechanisms. I still smoke cigarettes. You know, that's the one that's the hardest to die, but I have a lot of healthy in my life to help keep me consistently on this path.

[00:14:34] You know, I've reconnected with God. Like, you know, we try to tell kids to it, like say, if they don't believe in God or yeah, they don't believe in God, we tell them, you know, whatever your higher power is, you know, go for that. You know what I mean? Grasp onto that. What is that saying to you? What is that doing for you?

[00:14:54] You know, like we, we try to literally show them and help them gain these healthy coconuts. Because they're going to have to live with this stuff forever. It was going to be flashbacks. There are going to be nightmares. They're going to be all kinds of things, because we have to remember that these kids are being raped on a regular basis.

[00:15:13] These kids are being beaten on a regular basis. They're being exploited, the traumas, the several types of traumas that they experienced in one setting. I'm not going to say in one day after one person, after another person, after another person, it all compounds. And this kid has to go in at the end of the day or the end of the night and have to sit with it.

[00:15:35] You know what I mean? And a lot of the kids learn how to disconnect or they turn to unhealthy coping skills such as, you know, controlled substances in order to deal with it. You know? And that's another thing when we help kids get out. Now we have to help them to catch up with all the trauma because them sitting still is almost like death to them.

[00:15:57] Most of the time, because now I'm sitting still, I'm not running, running, running, I'm not moving, moving, moving. Now I have to deal with all these things that have happened to me. Now I have to look at myself in the mirror, you know what I mean? And so it's like, this is something literally, uh, survivors have to deal with ever.

[00:16:16] Um, I've been out of the life since I was 21, 22, 21. And I went back in for a little bit, you know, I, um, I lapsed a few times or relapsed a few times because I didn't have any other skills. You know, I still needed to survive. Like all of these things play a major part in like the recovery. So I hope I'm not going too long.

[00:16:44] David Dowlen: I like real answers.

[00:16:46] Jessica Midkiff: Oh, I got you. We'll be doing this all day.

[00:16:50] David Dowlen: I'm good. I'm good. Willing to just pan right into the next thing at five. It's cool.

[00:16:55] Jessica Midkiff: So, but yeah, like that, just looking at it that way, like breaking it down and you can break it down a lot deeper, but I think right there is kind of just giving a good understanding of where it person is.

[00:17:08] They've had to live, you know, unspeakable, horrors, and then they're retrieved and they're taken in and then they have to sit down and they have to now deal with all this stuff that they didn't have to deal with while running, because they were just trying to survive. Now, it's trying to figure out how to survive with all the trauma and the shame.

[00:17:29] David Dowlen: Well, even, even quote, unquote, healthy adults have problems with sitting still and being in the column. Right. That's why solitary confinement is considered one of the worst things we do in judicial system, because people having to sit with their own mind and nothing else and just be still is you see all the meditation goobers and stuff like that.

[00:17:51] They're like, oh, it was like, yeah, I know why that's not a bigger thing than it is because people just don't being trapped with your own head. You see healthy quote, unquote healthy adults struggle with all the time. Right. We got to have music on TV, on something in the background. Being alone with our minds is terrifying for most people, much less someone with actual horrors in their past,

[00:18:15] Jessica Midkiff: which is just adding extra.

[00:18:16] Right. You're sitting in, I like to call what is it? The loud quiet. Right. Cause it's so it's quiet, but it's so loud. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know, not one person's thing is bigger than another, but it's just, I love how you said it. Like just having to sit by yourself. And you could be the most functioning, healthy person.

[00:18:38] It's still probably like, I can't do this no more than a minute, five minutes. I'm done. You know, so, and then you have a kid that has all these kid things, hormones, mental, you know, like just all these natural things, and then you have the trauma and then they have to say like, that is crazy, you know? And so we try to help the best way we can, you know, like I said, we're not perfect, but our team, we give it our, all our community partners, we all give it our all, you know, and it seems to work out pretty good.

[00:19:12] David Dowlen: Yeah. It's a great fight to be in. So let me ask, what was the, what was the plan with the book?

[00:19:19] Jessica Midkiff: So, uh, the plan with the book, um, you know, Alan actually came and reached out to me and was like, Hey, do you want to do this? You know, for one, um, I had a number of book offers in the past where people were like, Coauthor with you want to do this?

[00:19:35] Or do you want to write a book? We'll get in. I was just like, no, no, no. And he came to me, but Allen established like this great relationship with me. And, um, he was like, do you want to do this? And I thought about it and I was like, heck yeah, I want to do it. Like, I think it's time, you know, I don't think I was ready before.

[00:19:55] And the vision was so great. So it wasn't just focused on, you know, my story or my other survivor sisters stories. It wasn't just solely that it was reaching out to men. And I mean, the book is for anyone, but it was reaching out to men, you know, specifically to say like, Hey, we play a part in all of this.

[00:20:16] You know, whether we're we're buying or we're exploiting or we're not doing anything or we're not doing enough or we're being silent, whatever it may be like it's reaching so many different things, not to put men down. Because that's not the goal at all, but just to kind of bring attention like, Hey, these are our kids, you know, like this is a human being issue.

[00:20:39] It's not just the little girl or little boy, man or woman issue. It's like a human issue. And I wanted to speak into it. You know, I would love to see more men stand up and, and use their voices and, you know, active that shield for a lot of people that are going through different types of abuse. The worst thing that can happen is if you see something and you don't say anything, you know, like that's the worst thing that can happen.

[00:21:08] And this book is meant to just reach anybody and everybody, and hopefully we can start seeing some more change with, you know, just helping out other human beings in jail. Um, especially our kids, because guess what, our kids that are not protected and not look factor and not valued and not respected, grow into adults that are those same things.

[00:21:31] And now we have adults that are facing these issues and it's going to be another generation that's going to go through these things. And so it's like, hopefully we can put some type of a stance deal, you know, or pause or slow down on what's going on. And hopefully at some point in these generations we'll have a handle on it.

[00:21:49] So I'm hoping this book age as well, which I think it will. Um, and, um, yeah, just to help stop some violence.

[00:22:01] David Dowlen: I love what you said about people not doing anything. Um, you know, I'm, I'm not very often, I'd like to say not always a black and white kind of guy, but I really am. Um, but this is something that there's not a gray area on.

[00:22:19] You're either part of the solution. You're part of the problem. And I mean, some wireless, my listeners that may sound a little drastic, but guys, I'm not exaggerating. You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem not doing something makes us just as guilty as people who are doing bad things in this situation.

[00:22:38] There's just no question in my mind.

[00:22:41] Jessica Midkiff: Yeah. Oh 100%. Um, there were times when I was out with my exploiter and I mean, even being out on the street, um, and I remember being beaten on a street corner and people drove by and didn't say anything because they were like, oh, that's her choice. She wants to be out here.

[00:23:03] She wants to do this. She's nasty. She's disgusting. We're not going to help her. I remember another time being chased down the street by an ex. Right that wasn't mine, just some rival exploiter. And he was chasing me and he was trying to be physical. And I remember this woman pulled up and she didn't say anything to him, but she said to me, you need to hurry up and get up outta here.

[00:23:24] You're bringing down our value over here. I'm like, you need, I called the police on you, but didn't say anything to this man. That's chasing me and grabbing me and being violent with me. And I'm like help. And it was even a woman that didn't say anything to him, but said it to me, another woman, you know?

[00:23:44] And I remember that day, like my heart broke and it wasn't so much like, dang, like, you know, I didn't have all these thoughts of like, you know, being in normal society. It was just like, dang, you don't see he's attacking me. You don't see that. I'm afraid I may die, but you're worried about the property value, you know?

[00:24:05] And what also sunk into too was that I don't know. My life doesn't matter. And that reinforced my exploiters, you know, views about me. I wasn't human. I was property. I was something, I was a tangible thing to pick up and sell, you know, and that was it. And when there was no more use for me, I'm discarded and thrown away.

[00:24:29] And so it's like when people see stuff going on, they don't say anything that speaks volumes. When people see things and they speak up and they victim blame and victim shame that speaks volumes to, you know, it's like, if you see something that isn't right, you don't have to jump in the mix of something, but you can call the police.

[00:24:51] You can, you know, and not her saying, I called the police on you, but Hey, I see this weird situation going on. I'm not sure of what's going on, but can you come over to the corner of X, Y, and Z? You know, that would make a difference, you know, instead of. Blaming or just looking the other way. But I mean, as in society, we're taught to look the other way.

[00:25:11] We're taught to mind our business and not understanding that a lot of kids go missing. A lot of adults go missing in this whole messed up subculture because someone refused to say something or they shame the victim. And so saying something in the right moment can actually change how a person's life ends up

[00:25:35] along with.

[00:25:36] David Dowlen: No, you're good. You're absolutely good. Um, I, I'm very much interested in having conversations that actually matter. So this is, this is wonderful. And Jessica, you touched on it. Some will you share a little bit of your story, whatever you're comfortable with, nothing more, just share a little bit of your backstory, where the audience for those people who haven't had a chance to read the book and guys get the book and I'm just going to say, get the book.

[00:26:02] Okay. Uh, it's. I was impacted immediately reading this book. You guys know, I don't share books that I haven't actually read. I was impacted immediately get the book. And Jessica story is in there. The Jessica, will you share with us a little bit of that now?

[00:26:20] Jessica Midkiff: Sure. Um, so I'm happy you said the part of my story is in the book.

[00:26:25] So again, yeah, go get it. Um, but just to give a little backdrop, um, you know, and it's, it's in there too, but I was very young being conditioned and abused as a child starting from around the age of three years old that I could remember. Um, and I was abused for a very long time as a kid. And I had, I ended up being revictimized over and over again as a child.

[00:26:49] Um, I fell into the hands of different types of exploiters, um, and even with someone very close to my family unit and, um, I got into the life very young. Um, and I didn't get out until like my early twenties. And then again, of course I kind of fell and bumped my head a little bit and still was in that, that life for a cause I didn't know what to do.

[00:27:14] Um, but it was crazy because when I was going through everything, I thought, this is what life was. It was, this is what I was supposed to do. This is what I was put on the earth to do. Um, I'm like a huge helper by nature. I just want to help people. I think my grandmother instilled that in me. Um, and so like when I would be out there, how I justified, what I, what I was doing.

[00:27:41] Cause I was in for, I was in the life for around 10 years, um, off and on about 10 years total. And um, I remember I would come in contact with, you know, the buyers and some of the things that they want. It, it was pretty grotesque, which I won't go into, but, um, I said, maybe if they're doing this to me, maybe they won't do it to an innocent child or, or someone else maybe they won't rape someone.

[00:28:08] Maybe they won't molest someone. So maybe I'm doing my part as a human being as a citizen by doing what I'm doing. Um, I didn't think much of myself, but that's how I kinda got through things. And towards the end of me just being really, really tired, wanting to be a mom. Cause I already had my daughter by that time.

[00:28:28] Um, and a family member to occur. Um, I didn't want to die and I was on my way to dying and I wanted to be here for my daughter. I didn't love myself enough to say, okay, I have an iPad, but I love my daughter enough to say, okay, I've had enough. I need to figure something out because I don't want my daughter to be motherless or I don't want my daughter to grow up and see that her mom is doing this.

[00:28:51] And she ends up doing the same thing I'm doing, or I don't want my daughter to grow up and think her mother doesn't. And so I had to make a really big change. I had to come to that point and things got really violent for me to escape the life, which it's in the book too, but I was actually able to escape.

[00:29:09] Um, I was directed to call 2, 1, 1 out here in California and they actually found me a program, uh, that I could escape to and go to. And I was there for a little while and, uh, yeah, my life was it consisted of rape, molestation, beatings, everything violent. You can think of that as what my life consisted of for a very long time in my life.

[00:29:33] And the only piece I really truly got was when I lived with my grandparents, that was the only time I got a break. Um, my grandmother was very protective of me and unfortunately she got sick, so there wasn't a lot she could do. And I kind of had to go out into the world so to speak. Um, but I was able to recover by the grace of God.

[00:29:55] Um, I have friends that never got to make it out. Some actually died violently in the life and, you know, I was blessed to not die. And so I take it as like, this is my personal assignment, you know, of course this thing is bigger than me. It's way bigger than me. I'm a small speckle on top of the speckle or whatever in this whole thing.

[00:30:15] But I believe that my mission here is to help those that have been abused, not just commercially, sexually exploited, but abused in any type of way that has been forced to feel like, you know, they're nothing for me to come in and try to help the best I can. So my thought is if I can help at least one person, then I've done my part.

[00:30:35] So I get up and try to do that every day. And it's hard sometimes because sometimes I just want to be like, I want to hide from the world, but I know that I have a mission. And so, um, yeah, I, I know it was pretty general. I don't want to give too much away from the book, but, um, It's just, you know, my life consisted of a lot of abuse.

[00:30:57] Um, so I didn't think highly of myself. And to be honest, I didn't get out of survival mode until, and start actually beginning to love myself until I hit about maybe 30 or 31 years old. I got out in my twenties. Um, I was doing the work in my twenties, but I started to actually build little spots of love for myself after 30.

[00:31:22] Um, and still not, you know, 100% all the time. Like sometimes I get up, I do not want to look at myself in the mirror, like, oh my gosh, you know, like all the things I've done, you know, but you know, I, that's where I call my support system. I talked to my therapist, our color, I do whatever I need to do. I get up and go to work.

[00:31:41] Like I do what I need to do, you know, my processes and done. So I've survived and I've over. I've been able to overcome a lot and I'm. Like my book is not done. My, my life's not done. It's still being written. So I was that

[00:31:59] David Dowlen: cool. No, no, that's great. That's absolutely great. Hey, God loves messy people.

[00:32:08] I've met way too many people who went, oh, I've made, did bad things or made bad choices or had problems. There's no, God loves me. All you got to do is understand the Bible at all. Everybody Jesus hung out with was a mess and society. So

[00:32:25] fortunate for a lot of us ,

[00:32:27] Jessica Midkiff: I think, uh, you know, God loves everyone. He loves all his peeps, but I think he made it a point, right.

[00:32:34] And I'm not, I'm still not too fluid with the Bible. Cause I kind of lost touch over the years. That was a whole other thing too. Well, I'll tell you what a lot of kids go through too, is like my faith and God got shit while I was out there. There were times where I was like, if God was real and God loved me, then why am I going through all this?

[00:32:53] Why is he doing this to me? And I've heard so many kids say that, so, and that's another part too, where I'm like, you know, shoot, you blessed, what is blessed? You're here. Well, why I'm here because it's cool. And I always talk to the kids. I'm blessed, I'm blessed. I'm blessed. You know, and my, and I've talked about like, you know, him hanging out with, you know, thieves and ladies of the night and killers and all kinds of stuff.

[00:33:25] Like, just because you've done something, it doesn't determine exactly who you are as a human being. Like, you can still be a great, good human being and God still has used for you. You know what I mean? And I know that. You know, but some days it's just difficult, you know, human beings, stuff like it's hard, but it's not impossible.

[00:33:46] So,

[00:33:47] David Dowlen: so let me shift gears just a little bit here. Um, when I was reading the book and, uh, talking with Alan, one of the things that really jumped out at me is the argument you guys made about how common exploited children are in the porn industry and how that is directly fueling child sex trafficking and human trafficking.

[00:34:13] And I, there, I've had two different, uh, porn, recovery counselors on the show and I've, you know, I I'm a guy, I grown up listening to construction workers, military guys, and all the guys I grew up with my whole life like, oh, there's nothing wrong with porn. Horton's great. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. But some of what y'all shared in the book.

[00:34:34] Devastating. Right. You don't think about it. You think, oh, it's okay. Oh, well, you know, they're paid actors or actresses, blah, blah, blah. Right. Everybody's there of their own accord. How common is child exploitation in the porn industry?

[00:34:48] Jessica Midkiff: Oh, it's extremely common. You always have to think of rule of thumb, wherever there's an adult sex industry.

[00:34:54] There is a child one it's not going to be so out. Like, you know, over the top or whatever. Sometimes it is, you know, when you click on one of those websites and it's like barely legal young thing, whatever, nine times out of 10, that may be a 15 year old, you know, that's going through that stuff. And so it's like, it's like people have to be mindful.

[00:35:17] Uh, you know, they think some people think, oh, 18 and older, so no, it's not no kids. I don't see none of that. But it's like, no, what's. And a lot of people have probably watched some type of Katy porn and didn't even know it because, and Katie porn, meaning the age. So a 17 year old, that's not illegal, you know, legal age to consent to sex, at least in California.

[00:35:39] And a lot of other places, you know, the age kind of vary by state, by state, for sure. But also to like, and then you also have the stuff where it's like super kitty, like people are asking for prepubescent children, people are asking for the post pubescent children. You know, we also have to think about it too.

[00:35:58] Like the different types of people there are, there's, uh, you know, the, the pedophiles that prefer to prepubescent, they have a files that prefer the post pubescent and then you have situational abusers and that's a funny, tricky part. Right. And so any of us can turn into a situational abuser. It doesn't mean that we're going out, looking for specific type.

[00:36:19] It means I don't care if you're 13 or 30, like, I don't know the difference know. Just give me what I need and go on about your business. And so it's like kind of being careful with that. Like, we can be turned into situational abusers in these instances, you're going in with something in mind to do whatever, but not understanding that more than likely this might be a child.

[00:36:42] And it's the same in strip clubs too. Um, I've worked in a few different strip clubs in my life and you know, I've seen young ladies that were not supposed to be in there at one point. I was one of those girls that wasn't supposed to be in there cause I was under age. Um, and then you also have like the, the trafficking where they're bringing in young ladies from different countries and they're locking them in the strip clubs.

[00:37:06] And there was a young lady in particular and I do believe that she was young, but she was just kind of bigger, but she looked really young and I didn't know no better now that none of us did. We were all young and uh, the strip club manager would be so mean to her and we'd be like, girl, what? Like you're taking this, like, what's wrong with you?

[00:37:25] And we couldn't understand we were being abused too, but we couldn't understand like her taking the disrespect, this guy would lock her in the lockers. He would lock her uncovers and lockers and, and leave her in the strip club overnight. And we didn't even know it. Thank God. They actually closed down that particular strip club years ago.

[00:37:42] But it's just like, you never know what's going on in these places. You may think, oh, it's okay. Everybody's consenting. It's fun. Uh it's you know, it's just letting off steam. This has been around for a long time. You don't actually understand what you're walking into. You don't actually understand always what you're clicking onto and what you're taking in.

[00:38:01] So wherever there is an adult industry, there's definitely an industry for children in. Sometimes you can't tell between the two, you

[00:38:10] David Dowlen: said that you, uh, worked in strip clubs sometimes even before you were an illegal age. Were you ever forced into pornography as well?

[00:38:21] Jessica Midkiff: I can close. Um, I actually came in contact with a couple of like popular porn guys.

[00:38:27] Um, thankfully the exploiters I was with a we're like, no, you can't do anything with them. Cause they were afraid. The exploiter that I had was afraid of losing me to the person I came very, very close. I've even taken beaten beatings. Cause I was like, no, I don't want to do it. I did do some personal stuff when I was younger where it's like, someone has it in their cabinet or something like that, you know, but not mass distribution.

[00:38:54] Um, and the thing is you don't even know where they're being filmed at. Like some of the players, I had a few friends, they were filming at this one, um, motel that was in a residential area. It was across the street from a college, a community college. And was that the street from, you know, some, uh, elementary school nursery up the way from a high school and this stuff was happening in these neighbors.

[00:39:19] So being very mindful of that too, like these things, it's not just happening in certain places or certain houses, like it happens in houses and all that stuff too, but it takes place where you wouldn't even imagine it to happen. Like your kids walking home from school or walking past a pornography site and how they kind of pick kids up or how they used to, you know, they would drive around and fancy stuff and Hey, you want to make some money real quick, you know, and kids, kids would be drawn in and adult young adults too.

[00:39:49] Um, so just being like kind of mindful scary

[00:39:55] guys,

[00:39:58] David Dowlen: guys, um, if you get through this whole podcast without being changed, we're doing something wrong. But for at the moment we've been getting into this with Jessica A. Little bit, we're going to roll to today's sponsor. And we'll be right back. One more. I'm calling on all men right now to stand up and stand against this horrific crime.

[00:40:20] It is estimated over 300,000 children are being sex trafficked in the United States alone. Every single day. I want you to get on your social media. I want you to follow saving innocence.org or fight for me. Dot net. Both of these charities are working to end child trafficking in the United States and abroad.

[00:40:38] You can donate at www.thefallibleman.com/shop and buy our inhuman trafficking merchandise. And all proceeds will be given indefinitely to saving innocence.org. You can also go to www dot, saving innocence.org/donate and donate directly to saving innocence men. It is time for us to fight and stop this horrible thing known as human trafficking.

[00:41:07] All right guys. Welcome back. We are having a great conversation with Jessica Midkiff of men fight for me. We talked to her coauthor last week and Jessica's continued, incredible conversation. And guys, if you are not moved by this conversation, if you're not feeling it, you need to go check with your doctor because your heart's not working quite right at this point.

[00:41:29] I'll just be blunt about that.

[00:41:31] Jessica. Now in the book, you mentioned that you were trafficked all the way across state lines all over the country. Is that normal?

[00:41:39] Uh, it's pretty common. And as time goes on, it depends on the situation, but I, a lot of kids at least hit one or two different states throughout their life in that subculture.

[00:41:50] Jessica Midkiff: For sure. Now

[00:41:53] David Dowlen: you, you tell some horror stories about waterboarding and dog cages and untimely deaths and physical abuse just besides the, even the forced sex, the rape and molestation. It's really a lot of our listeners and how we're trained. I think a lot of our listeners want to think that this is something that I would a bad nightmare are happening in other countries or somewhere else.

[00:42:20] Is this normal in trying to get girls to fall in line? Do what they're told?

[00:42:26] Jessica Midkiff: Yeah. So, I mean, it does definitely happen in other countries, right? It's running rampant, but it's, it's, it's running rampid out here, but people think this is the land of the free, so it's their choice, which is not the case. So that's to begin with.

[00:42:41] And so like you have different grooming techniques. Um, but as soon as they kind of get the kid where they want them, uh, then they use different torture methods or different methods to kind of keep, uh, a kid or a person like in the life and doing what they want them to do. Um, and making sure they're reporting.

[00:43:01] So the whole thing is to. That person's spirit. That's the whole point of it. Let me break them down so much. So they never leave. And then they rely solely on me. One of the, one main common things across the board is the financial abuse. So that kid or person nine times out of 10 will never truly have control over the funds that they make and be able to like get their basic needs met on their own.

[00:43:27] They have to go through their exploiter to do that. Um, and we're not talking about the folks that are, you know, that are in brothels or anything like that, but there's a certain level of financial abuse there that looks a little different, but it's still along the same lines too. So, um, even for those that don't have like a typical exploiter, it just looks a little different, but it's all along the same lines.

[00:43:49] David Dowlen: So a lot of manipulation along with abuse,

[00:43:52] Jessica Midkiff: heavy, heavy, heavy manipulation, gas, lighting, anything you can think of. You know, that's what they do. And like a part of it too, is when they get kids, they build, you know how I said earlier on like my job, we function as a family unit to be the family. It's the same thing in that culture is for them to function as a family unit.

[00:44:14] So the exploiter will commonly be known as daddy or folks, you know, uh, the other girls that are with him or call it like WiFi's or wife and laws. And like you have different family members that are not your true family member. They're just all in the life. And that's how they're kind of identified. Um, so it, it mirrors some of the family unit stuff, but it's not a real family, a unit that's just built to look like that structure, not the actual family.

[00:44:46] David Dowlen: Okay. Switching gears a little bit towards, uh, let's move towards how men can help at this point. And what. Has been your experience because you've been an advocate now for over a decade, uh, are more. And what in your experience is the difference between having a present and active and engaged father and protecting the children, you know, all the way up to and shorter, maybe Liam Neeson, you know,

[00:45:17] right.

[00:45:18] Jessica Midkiff: Particular set of skills. Right.

[00:45:20] David Dowlen: You know, we all, we all, we all like to pretend that we have the,

[00:45:26] Jessica Midkiff: we all do have some special skills. They may not look Liam Neeson, but we all have special skills to protect our kids. Um, I would say like, um, it's just so important. I, I, I think I've said this before, but, um, young ladies that grow up with their fathers that are actually. And I mean, not just physically present, but they're actually present with your children, grow up with this certain kind of confidence.

[00:46:00] Can't really tell you what it is. It, you just see it. There's a certain confidence where they feel like protected and they know they're protected. They're, you know, it's everything. And then you have kids that grow up without their fathers like myself, and we can be aggressive and all these crazy things and put up this facade, but we're tough in a different way.

[00:46:21] We're tough because that's kind of like what we're forced to be. We have to try to protect yourself somehow some way where kids that grow up with their fathers that are present, that are doing their best and being awesome or whatever it is. And that child feels loved by their father. It's just a certain confidence.

[00:46:39] It's a real confidence. It's a difference. Um, and I think like kids that have their fathers can't

[00:46:47] and not saying that, you know, Because they have their fathers can't fall into being exploited or fall into abusive relationships, but there was a different type of support. Um, that comes from having a father. I, uh, I met my father years ago and he raised one of my sisters. Her mom was not great. So he ended up taking her on and I talked to her, you know, from time to time, we're all adults now I'm the oldest, you know?

[00:47:15] Um, but there is a certain confidence that she exudes. She may not have had her mother, her whole life, but she definitely had a father. And I can't think of another word. It's just like, it's confidence where I don't think what I had was confidence. I had survival, you know what I mean? I had the bravado of like, if you look back, you know, as opposed to like my sister, she's like, I'm going to get my dad.

[00:47:43] Like you did these, I'm getting my dad do what I dare you. You know, there's a. And so, um, it's just really important for children to have both their parents if possible, but I know that there's a really big impact that fathers do have on their, their daughters and their sons. Um, and even if, say for instance, like a person is not a father having that healthy father figure speaks volumes.

[00:48:10] I wish I had a healthy father figure growing up. I mean, I have my grandfather, but he worked a lot. So, um, and he did his best, but, um, you know, I wish I had some really healthy men in my life that I could have really run to when I needed to. Um, and I didn't have

[00:48:30] that.

[00:48:31] David Dowlen: Let's see, you're already going the direction of my next question, which was how can men, whether they have children or not be more involved to help protect children this way.

[00:48:43] Jessica Midkiff: So going back to my, my other story, Previous statement is just like, you know, if you see something, say something, if something doesn't look right to you, do your part, you know, and of course be safe. Don't be crazy with it. You know, we're, we're not Liam Neeson, none of us. So be careful, um, you know, saying some kind words, you know, you have young ladies in your family, you have young men in your family, instill some values, spend that extra time, sit down and see what their interests are.

[00:49:15] You know? Um, you have your significant other, your partner, let the young lady see how you treat your wife, your girlfriend, your sisters, your mother, like everything you guys do is important. You are being watched, you know what I mean? Um, and really being supportive, you know, you don't have to be a father to be a great man or a great father figure, just standing up.

[00:49:42] Um, I think really does it. And then of course buying the. 'cause I can't tell you how to be a man. Cause I'm a woman. No. Um, but buying the book and when you buy the book, maybe after you read it, pass it on to someone else or, you know, let your friends know, Hey, there's this great book. Why don't you buy it?

[00:50:00] Or, you know, get as much information out as much as possible, be a part of some community things, you know, be active in your nieces and nephews lives and do anything positive that you can y'all know what's right. You know, I don't want okay. Time. That was probably too condescending.

[00:50:20] David Dowlen: It's not, I I'm really into honesty and truth.

[00:50:26] Uh I'm I'm tired of people making bullshit excuses. So I'm really into just truth.

[00:50:36] Jessica Midkiff: That's the thing, you know, truth is just like, you know what it is to be a good person. You know, like, and it's not just like even say for instance, if you are you're in a family with nothing but men, boys, you don't, for some reason you don't have access to a young lady to be the father figure, you know, teach the young men.

[00:50:56] What authentic masculinity really looks like help these young men step into their place. As the protectors, as the men are nurturers to, you know, to what being respectful looks like to standing up, you know, like there's so much that you can definitely teach and be a part of, um, and just spreading the word.

[00:51:19] So, yeah, I kind of get,

[00:51:25] David Dowlen: now you survive 10 years in thesis are commercially, sexually exploited children. Okay. I want, I've repeated that several times in descriptions of these videos. I want people to get familiar with that acronym and understand what it means. You survive 10 years starting at 11 years old and had some abuse in your life before that you spent over 10 years advocating and your story was difficult to read.

[00:51:52] I'm not gonna lie. It was, uh, it was a difficult, I actually re-read it earlier today before the interview, uh, just to make sure that I was able to ask all the questions I wanted to ask. Um, but you've worked on this book now and you're working actively with kids and trying to help them find a new life.

[00:52:13] Get out of this. What do you want to tell the audience from your perspective today? What do you most want them to take away from?

[00:52:22] Jessica Midkiff: Shoot? I can't really do a most, cause there's so much. If I could put this, um,

[00:52:34] let's talk about the audience take away. Oh, you know what. I'm going to just throw a few things out there. Okay. Um, one of the things is like myself and a lot of my survivor sisters, we don't really like, you know, when folks say, oh, you were rescued, you were rescued. Um, we like the kids to like, kind of be in there, like to step into their power.

[00:53:00] Have they made the decision? They were strong enough to overcome. So we didn't come in and swoop in and save you. We just came and walked, which they like, you know? So it's not like, oh, you poor little survivor. We don't like pity. We don't like it. Yeah. Feel for us, want to know what to do, you know, like get comfortable with like, Hey, what can I do?

[00:53:20] How can I could involve like, dang, you've been through so much, but look at how great you're doing now, you know, to focus on the positive. Um, because it kind of reinforces kind of like the victim, the victim. Tom. And with our young ladies that we work with and the young boys that we work with as well, we want them to step out of the victim role.

[00:53:47] We want them to step out of revictimization. We want them to step, step hard and firm into their power. Like you did this, you overcame, you know what I mean

[00:54:00] to another thing is to constantly keep learning, you know, this stuff, it changes every year, every month, every week, every day, every second, you know, the, my favorite thing is if you see something, say something, um, don't be so quick to judge. You know, we may, you may come in contact with some of us and we may be very aggressive.

[00:54:24] We may be very angry. We may be a lot of different things. We might say, this is what I'm doing. Get up out of my. That's what we're trying to do, you know, that's what we have to do in order to survive. So even if you come in contact with someone that is just going through it, don't, don't, don't count them out yet.

[00:54:41] Still call and say something still reporting. You know what I mean? Um, you know, give survivors a chance. It's not just in like the crazy urban areas or deep in the cities. This is happening everywhere. Um, getting your kids, um, educated, you know, age appropriate education. Of course. And I, I educated my daughter accordingly.

[00:55:11] Um, but like educating your kids, keeping them safe. Don't be afraid to have the real conversations with your kids because it may save their lives one day. Um, you know, we always talk to our kids about uncle was strangers. Don't do this. Don't do it. Give them some signs to look out for, you know, let them know what's going on.

[00:55:30] The more education they get, the safer they may be. Um, and I just want you guys to take away from this, like thank you for, you know, coming on here and wanting to hear me, you know, like, you know, just tell you guys what some of this stuff is. You guys probably have heard it before, but thank you for just wanting to listen and to learn more.

[00:55:51] It takes a lot to do that. And I know this is really happy. Um, and you guys kick butt. Thank you.

[00:55:59] David Dowlen: What's next?

[00:56:02] Jessica Midkiff: Oh, say it one more time.

[00:56:03] David Dowlen: What's next for Jessica makeup? Ooh,

[00:56:08] Jessica Midkiff: still doing the work, um, school going back to school. Um, I do eventually, I think I want to be a therapist. Um, I want to go into some type of psychology therapy, something don't know exactly what you don't know exactly where I'm being called, but I'm kind of being brought back to that kind of general.

[00:56:32] Um, what else is next for me? Continuing to love myself, continue my recovery. Um, continue to discover the amazing person that I know I am, even if I don't see it every day, uh, continue being, uh, uh, the best mom I can be eventually one day, probably, hopefully not too soon. One day being a grandma. Um, and hopefully, maybe writing some more.

[00:57:02] I don't know. I just want to help. That's what I want to do.

[00:57:06] David Dowlen: That's a good walk.

[00:57:09] Jessica Midkiff: Like everything else I think will fall into place. God has a plan. So.

[00:57:17] David Dowlen: We've been flashing across the screen guys, but if you're listening with us, hit fight, www.fightforme.net to pick up the book, to get more resources, they have a plethora of information there to help you. If you want to learn more about this, I'll make the same appeal. I've done the last podcast because I'm not a programming guy, but according to Alan, there's not like a, uh, mass directory of resources for trafficking.

[00:57:46] And so I'm begging you guys, someone out there who's good at programming, put together a free website and just make an aggregate where people can go and find the closest to them, help for human trafficking, just an aggregate of resources and directory for that. That would be incredible. Someone who's got those skills.

[00:58:06] If that's not me, please, please, please do that. So hit fightforme.Net. Go check out saving innocence.org. There's more resources there. This is where Allen, Jessica both work and the organization, they work with the organization. They both work with. Um, and guys, you can go to saving innocence.org/donate, to donate directly to the charity and help them that way you can also hit up the shop on my website, www dot.

[00:58:39] I almost gave your website again, www.thefallibleman.com/shop. And there are four items. There are shirts. There are mugs that are water bottles that are say right there in the title, charity, any money from those goes directly to saving innocence. So you can get your human trafficking awareness t-shirts from there.

[00:59:01] They also have some really cool designs, a hope dealer. Yeah. Hope Dealer design on their website as well. Guys support them in any way you can. Jessica. Thank you for taking the time to be with me today on the podcast. I really appreciate your time

[00:59:17] Thanks Brent. You were

[00:59:20] Jessica Midkiff: amazing. So great. You're awesome. Thank you again for allowing me to come on your platform and you know, just as having this great conversation about what's needed, you brought up,

[00:59:31] David Dowlen: uh, guys as always be better tomorrow because what you do today and we'll see you on the next one.

[00:59:37] David McCarter: This has been the

[00:59:38] foul man podcast, your home, everything man, husband and father, be sure to subscribe. So you don't miss a show head over to www.thefalliblebain.com or more content and get

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