Bridging Divides The Art of Respectful Disagreement

Have you ever had a falling out with a friend over something that seemed totally mundane to you, whatever conversation it was, something you felt like you should have been able to talk to them about? And it blew up in your face. And now maybe they don't talk to you or they might not even be in your life.

Well, guys, we live in a highly diverse of time in history where meaningful discourse is actually taking a backseat. We don't talk to each other and disagree with respect anymore. We can't seem to have our own opinions, or at least that seems to be how it feels at this moment in history. Is that you're not allowed to have your opinion.

People are splitting paths over differing opinions on stupid topics. But let me offer you a quote, but at this time, when our discourse has become sharply polarized at a time where you're far too eager to lay blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently [00:01:00] than we do, it's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we're talking to each other in a way that heals the world.

Not away the wounds as former president Obama. Now, if I can quote president Obama, who I'm not a huge fan of, look, we may have just disagreed then. I can set my differences aside to at least take the wisdom that came out of some of those. Whether I like the man or not, this is a phenomenal quote that describes our current situation.

People are falling apart over ideologies, over politics, over things that really have very little impact on our day to day life sometimes. Families, friends, co workers, it's all going crazy. Because we can't respectfully disagree. Well guys, it's time to change that. And today on the Fallible Man podcast, I'm talking to Philip Blackett.

Philip not only coaches people into how to have respectful discourse, even when they have differences of opinions and [00:02:00] ideologies and political beliefs, but he also wrote a book on it that we're not going to dive too deep into today, but instead of going deep into his book, Philip's going to lay out his five step process for respectfully disagreeing with people and still walking away okay.

Because at this time in history, it is more important than ever that we have honest, open conversations and respect each other's conversations enough to have them so that we can learn to move forward with our lives and still respectfully disagree with each other. Guess what? You're allowed to have your opinion.

Like I said, you may not agree with my on president Obama. That's fine. We don't have to agree. And that doesn't make you a bad guy. And that doesn't make me a bad guy. Now, if you're ready to be able to say that, then you definitely need to stick around for this episode of the fallible man podcast for all of you who don't want to hang out through the get to know you section.

If you've been on the show before, you know, I have a get to know you section. I've got time stamps down in the description or the show notes, whatever platform you're joining us [00:03:00] on today, and you can skip straight to the meat and potatoes of the conversation or take a few minutes and get to know who Philip is.

Either way, this show is really important for you to check out today. So thanks for being here. And let's get into it. Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential, growing to the men we dream of becoming while taking care of our responsibilities, working, living, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves.

Well, that's the big question. And in this podcast, we'll help you with those answers and more. My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast. Welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast. Your home for all things man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation. That's our long time listeners.

And Hey, to join that, there's no cost. You just got to stick around guys. A warm welcome to our first time listeners. There's a lot competing for your attention. So from the bottom of my heart, thanks for checking us out. Give us a chance. Be sure and connect with me at the fallible man, most social media platforms.

I'm most active on Instagram. Let me know what you thought of the show. And if you really enjoy it, the [00:04:00] best compliment you can give us is just to share it with somebody else who needs to hear the show that simple guys, nothing fancy today, my special guests. It's author, speaker, and entrepreneur. If I can say that word, Philip Blackett.

Philip, welcome to the Fallible Man podcast.

Phillip Blackett: Thanks so much, Brent. It's a pleasure to be here with you.

D Brent Dowlen: Now, Phil, we like to start really light. So how's your trivia skills?

Phillip Blackett: Mediocre, but hopefully today's a good day.

D Brent Dowlen: Okay. Now I handpicked these questions for stuff that I wouldn't know. So we'll see, right?

What does Nathan's hot dog eating contest take place? Sorry, where does Nathan's hot dog eating contest take place? Is it a Coney Island B Miami beach C the mall of America or D Orlando?

Phillip Blackett: Coney Island.

Coney Island. Alright guys, you know the rules. Don't cheat. Don't look it up. For God's sakes, don't look [00:05:00] it up if you're driving or write it down.

Come back to it later. Nobody actually cares. Philip, in your own words today, who is Philip Blackett?

Phillip Blackett: Continual work in progress. Um, entering my 40th year. Refusing to get into a mid year crisis over it and just thankful for another few days or each day, uh, with the people I care about the most, which in particular, it's my wife and kids.

I like it. Well, if you could be in any movie, what would it be and why?

Phillip Blackett: Um, I think it'd be nice to be a superhero. Um, not like a Marvel DC comics superhero movie. I think more like a movie of a superhero in today's setting. Yeah. Because our world definitely needs some saving.[00:06:00]

Do you have a good dad joke for us?

Phillip Blackett: Um, well, one joke I did where it was, um, I was tasked to take my kids to school. I have two daughters, seven years old. My wife was at on a business trip and I basically share it with people. Hey, I was tasked with taking my kids to school. I had to do their hair and here's the breakdown on what contributed to me helping them get their hair done before school, it was 10 percent skill, 20 percent luck, and 70 percent convinced them that today is purple rain day at school.

And we're all going to dress up like Prince.

Please tell me you took pictures.

Phillip Blackett: I did. I had to find them, but yeah.

Nice. [00:07:00] So did I understand you have twin seven year olds?

Phillip Blackett: Twin daughters that are seven years old. Absolutely.

Wow. Just, I have two daughters. They're nine and 12 and they're a handful on their own. I can't imagine going through two of them at the same time.

So just, wow, hats off to you.

Phillip Blackett: Well, it's kind of like you double up, but you know, that once you pass that next year, that next level. You're done with the previous one. There's no going back to it. There's no going back to diapers here. Great. Now, if I could just get through the temper tantrums, then,

you know, we'll,

Phillip Blackett: we'll, we'll make some good here.

Oh, you're going to do great, man. It's uh, you've got through seven years. You're it's downhill from there. Like once they hit the, a couple of years up, right. As they hit eight and nine, they start being more reasonable.

Phillip Blackett: Well, I would say downhill and more gray hairs for me, that's for sure.

[00:08:00] Well, you gotta, sorry, you have to understand like the baby years when the ones that terrified me, I spent, I used to be a youth minister.

My kids are heading into that age, my oldest, and I'm thrilled. Everybody's like, Oh, wait until you have teens. It's like, do you understand? I dedicated 20 years of my life to working with teens. I'm good.

Phillip Blackett: I've been preparing for this for so long.

Yeah, this is a life work here. Uh, but it was those younger years that frustrated me when they couldn't communicate things.

Like the younger, the worst for me, because they couldn't, they couldn't communicate, Oh daddy, this hurts. So this doesn't feel good. Right. You know, my tummy's bothering me. And so the more developed they've gotten where they can actually communicate with me, like I am just enjoying that it takes the mystery out of.

The problem area is unless you really enjoy as they evolve into their own personalities. So when I, when I say downhill, it's the hard [00:09:00] parts over to me.

Phillip Blackett: Cause you've been prepared for it now beforehand. Yeah, I get it. That might be a different story, but this. This is like Superbowl. Like we're up three, one, like we feel good about this.

Oh yeah. Yeah. My daughter's doing a fundraiser with me right now. We're getting up and hiking a couple of miles every morning with weight on for a ruck mark challenge. And you know, where we, I have so much fun with my kids at nine and 12. They're just, I'm enjoying so much out of that seven, seven seems to be on the age cap where it's like.

Once you pass that, they really start to, it's easier to communicate with them and figure out how life's going to work to me.

Phillip Blackett: And the other thing I think of too, Brent is at seven, I look at it as like, okay, now we're starting what I hope to be the fun years, because they're at the age where you [00:10:00] can go on ride.

So to speak, they actually have memories of what they experience. And now it's just about, you know, what type of values are important to them, but also what type of fun memories that they'll be able to relive, uh, for the rest of their lives, you know, going forward.

So you guys, I'm not the only dad thinks the fun years are after those initial years.

I felt like, I felt like I I'm totally getting out of topic here. I felt like such a bad dad early on because I didn't like having little ones. Like everybody goes, Oh, they're so cute when they're babies. I'm like, I cannot wait for them to grow up. I can't wait for you to grow up. Right. You get into the age group where I can actually talk to them and communicate with them.

Uh, I didn't

Phillip Blackett: understand.

And, and the younger years to me were just like, I felt like such a bad dad early on. I get it. So it's nice to know I'm not the only one. It's not just [00:11:00] me, Philip Batman or Superman.

Phillip Blackett: Batman.

That man, every guy,

Phillip Blackett: he was a stud in the real world and behind a mask.

See, everybody's got like, that's a like fighting lines for men.

It's hilarious. Every, every guy has a just like, Oh yeah. My best friend, he's a Superman guy. I'm a Batman guy. We, we can argue about it for hours. We will argue about it. We've, we've argued about it for 20 plus years. So worst song ever.

Phillip Blackett: Uh, wow. What's hoping you say best song. Where's song? Um, I don't know why this popped up immediately in my head, but this is the song that never ends.

It goes on and on. My friends, some people started singing and [00:12:00] not knowing what it was. And they'll just keep on singing it forever. Just because this is the song that never ends.

Our audience is gonna have that stuck in their head for yeah. Yeah.

Phillip Blackett: Yeah

guys for the rest of your day I'd like to say I'm sorry, but I'm not what purchase of 100 or less Have you made in the last year?

That's had the biggest impact on your life.

David McCarter: Mm

Phillip Blackett: hmm

last purchase for 100

I'm trouble trying to get past food right now That's been like the biggest expense as of late Um,

I would say, I would say books actually. Um, I bought some of my own books just so I can have them on my bookshelf. You have a bookshelf behind me and you have other people's books. Sometimes it's nice to have some of your own. So yeah, that's what I would say. [00:13:00]

There, there are no wrong answers. This part of the show, by the way.

So this is entirely you. I have one guy tell me that he bought a 70 pair of shorts and they were life changing to the point where he bought five more pairs. And the cheapskate in myself went, you spent 70 on shorts.

Phillip Blackett: We don't know what those shorts can do, Brent. I

think they're going to wash themselves or something.

Phillip Blackett: We don't, we, listen. It's 2024. Who knows what these shorts can do nowadays? They're not our gym shorts from 20 years ago.

Mine are you go to my website, buy a safe pair of gym shorts. They're just short guys. It's safe.

What hidden talent do you have?

Phillip Blackett: Um, I'm thinking of a hidden talent that I won't be put on the spot to perform.

I won't make you perform. I promise.

Phillip Blackett: Uh, okay. So if you say that, I'm gonna hold you to it. [00:14:00] Um, I used to do beat boxing when I was in high school.

Yeah, very cool. Mm hmm. I always wanted to be good at that.

I never was Super jealous. I don't think people I don't think Millennials or are sorry, let's go down and watch Zinnials are as familiar with that Like that was a bigger thing when we were younger. Mm hmm Which is funny because there weren't a lot of mainstream groups that had

Phillip Blackett: that You didn't have like things you could just create beats with a click of a button now, you know as you do now You Right, you have to make it up and be creative.

Yeah,

but see you got bands like pentatonix that Everybody's familiar with that has the vocal percussionist. Mm

David McCarter: hmm

So I was hoping that like, you know, kind of reinvigorate that desire for people, but it doesn't seem to have.

Phillip Blackett: Yeah. [00:15:00] I used to sing a cappella in high school and wanted to do that in college.

And one of the ways I felt like to help me get in to one of those groups was to learn how to do vocal percussion. So, It worked for high school, not so much college.

I grew up, uh, going to a church that was generally acapella and their music. And so vocal percussion was the thing that performance groups did, but that's where I first experienced that forever and ever ago, uh, the first time I heard someone start beat boxing, it was like, Oh my goodness, that's so cool.

Right. There's a beat to it now.

David McCarter: Uh,

I mean, after that, I was just like, I'd spit everywhere and run out of breath. And it was sad if you could learn and master any skill instantly, what would it be? And why

Phillip Blackett: master any skill?[00:16:00]

I think it'd be, um, wow. I think it'd be the skill to be able to talk to any person and quickly better understand what he or she is feeling and be able to Instantly modify what I'm saying to build a connection with that person. Any person.

Communication skills are important. I think they're undervalued.

Phillip Blackett: Very much. So

what is something everybody needs to know about you before we start? On today's subject matter

Phillip Blackett: that I love them

guys. We've been getting to know Phillip just a little bit in the next part of the show, we're going to dive into the lost art of civil discourse and more over cordial disagreement, which is my snotty way of saying how to talk to people and have [00:17:00] reasonable conversations without being jackasses to each other.

We, we have a big problem in this country at this point where we are just not good at talking to people, especially people who don't necessarily agree with us. We've lost this. If you've been on the show or if you listen to the show before, you probably know this is a huge pet peeve for me. Uh, it absolutely drives me insane that we've lost this ability to be like, Oh, you think that?

Well, I don't agree with that, but that's cool. You can think that, uh, and so I'm very excited about this conversation with Philip today, uh, Philip civil discourse is to me, a foundational and fundamental part of the origins of American culture. In your opinion, how do you think we've devolved to the point where we're at now, where any kind of disagreement, people seem to be like, Oh, well, you're my enemy.

We can't, you disagree with me. We have different opinions. We are, um, how do we get here?

Phillip Blackett: Listen, like Brent, [00:18:00] like the big thing is that comes to my head is that we didn't just now have disagreements like this year or four years ago or eight years ago. Like we've had differences of opinions and perspectives and viewpoints.

Since the beginning of time, I would imagine like our parents didn't always see eye to eye with one another grandparents. Um, and that's just what themselves versus everyone else around their communities. Um, so it's not the fact that, you know, diversity of thought is something that should be seen as a bad thing.

which it isn't. It should be preserved and celebrated and protected. What I would say is help with where we are today, a big part of it is social media. Because if you think about it, you have it where people can self select who they listen to, which sounds innocuous. It sounds innocent to say, I just, [00:19:00] these are the things I like to talk about and hear.

And these are the people I want to hear from. And I just cultivate my own. Eco chamber. But what happens there is that basically, um, you essentially limit yourself to what makes you feel comfortable. And one of the things I grew up learning from my mom about was you should always open yourself up to what other people say and what other people are thinking, even if they disagree, if nothing else, you learn where they're coming from and even if you are opposed to what they're saying.

Any good debater would know that learning your opposition's viewpoints and perspective only helps bolster what you have to say in response. But if you're limiting yourself to that, you have no idea what's going on. So not only are you having people self select, you know, what they hear from other people, you also have a place where people can anonymously, so to speak, be jerks in the comments.[00:20:00]

Um, no accountability, say what they want to say against you, what you say, and that sort. Um, People feel empowered about that and not have to worry about any sort of, um, consequences. Um, it used to be the case when we were growing up, if you didn't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Well, that's gone out the window.

If you don't have anything nice to say, go ahead and blurt it out and do it as public as you possibly can. And I think the other part of it too is just in mainstream media. Because now what you're starting to see is growing up, you used to have media outlets that tried to be objective. They tried to go about journalism with the highest standards of ethics.

and merit about their profession, right? They give a balanced view of the news. But now you can almost look at certain outlets or channels and tell that they're more leaning towards one side of the spectrum or another. [00:21:00] And it's coming off more like instead of journalism, it's more like propaganda. It's more like we're trying to feed into you.

They should be on one side of the other. And if you're not on our side, Then we'll shame you for it. We're not open to what you have to say. It's either you're with us or you're against us. And the problem with that Brent is I've very rarely came across somebody that is all the way left or all the way, right?

There's a lot of nuance. It truly is not a black or white matter. There's a lot of gray matter, but we're not even allowing people to basically play with or experiment with being in the middle on some things. To try to better understand to try to better educate and inform themselves. We're forcing people to be overly simplistic of thinking one or the other and the truth is No human is truly like that.[00:22:00]

I uh You were talking about, you know media outlets used to have Just report the news. And we're very respectful of my, in my brain automatically jumped. This is Walter Cronkite, right? You're old enough to remember that. Absolutely. Okay. So some of our audience won't be, so I like, look it up guys. Like he was actually a legit journal, journalist.

Phillip Blackett: But even to that point too, Brent, you think about it. When we were growing up, we only had so many TV channels. Some of us had. Three or four. Some of us had like, maybe like, Oh, if you were splurging, you had like 50. And so I think part of it was. With those major news channels, you had sort of a better control on the market that you could just focus just on [00:23:00] speaking the news and you would get the sponsorship dollars and you would be able to get in the revenue to keep yourself going to sustain itself.

But now with so many different platforms, everything splintered out, fragmented, anybody can just come up with a platform. Anyone could just come up with a news platform. Um, you have like a thousand TV channels now, at least, um, there's so much competition. And so now you have a lot of these news outlets that were known for journalism, like bonafide journalism, that is up against a wall and saying themselves, how do we keep ourselves in business?

We got to get more people listening to us, more people, you know, reading our stories. So what do you start doing? You start being a little. liberal when it comes to the headlines, a little more salacious, a little more scandalous on the headlines. You're trying to come up with some things that will compel someone to click on your story versus somebody else.

You may not care if they actually read the story or take in the [00:24:00] news, but just to have someone click onto your story on your internet site, so you can justify and get more advertising dollars. Now it becomes a game of how I can get people to click rather than digest and educate themselves. And so now the quality of journalism, I would think is probably much lower than it was years past because it's a competition with hundreds and hundreds of outlets.

Um, and because of that, you know, you don't get the same type of coverage that you would think you normally would have.

Yeah. I like to play a game with myself and look at some of the news headlines. And then actually like research the story a little bit and I'm just always like the spin in the headline, the way they'll word it adds a degree of uncertainty or salaciousness that isn't necessarily in the story, but most people only ever see that headline,

Phillip Blackett: but they got you to click right.

And [00:25:00] what it does, though, is the flip side of it to just answer your question even more. So the headlines are worded such a way that people can now make a judgment call just off the headline. You know, we talk a good deal about not being prejudiced towards one another, but now it's just like, you know, instead of us judging, not judging a book by its cover, we judge people just by the headline.

So we just look at the headline now. Oh, nope. I know all I need to know about this person, about this event, about the story. Why? Cause I just read the headline. So now we're limiting ourselves to not even fully understanding one another. You're making snap judgments. Um, and then it really just educates people on how to go about not just the news, but how to go about other people.

Oh, you, you, you vote for this person. Okay. Cancel. Oh, no, you're, you're for this policy. Okay. Unfriend. Oh, you think this is right versus the other thing. [00:26:00] Unfollow. Don't come to my family reunion. You are not getting the Christmas gift today. Where's this coming from? Why, why is that happening? But part of that, I believe media has a play for because They often are constructing narratives that they want you to believe.

And we used to very much trust them. So it's a broken down, uh, trust factor going on that builds skepticism. But now it's also the sense that the headlines itself is making people say, Hey, I can make a call on somebody just on knowing who they vote for, just based on who they believe in, where are they coming from, what they look like, who they love.

I don't need to know anything else about that person. That's a problem.

There's a website called trust pilot. Are you familiar with this one? Uh, I [00:27:00] get a kick out of it because you know, higher, more recognized media sites, like major news channels, you see their scores dropping down lower and lower and lower.

And it's like, you know, this, this site about 40 percent of the time is honest. And it's like, wow, what happened to the news, man, that used to be a safe place now to get actual information. Now it's all spin. And it's sad that we even now have websites that are, you have to go and be like, Oh, well, there's a 30 percent chance.

They're telling us the truth, but that's about it. Uh, why is civil discourse such a critical aspect of a healthy society?

Phillip Blackett: It really deals with how we deal with one another. You know, you show me a society that treats each other [00:28:00] horribly, makes snap judgments on them, calls them names rather than trying to figure the merits of who they are and.

doesn't just judge them by the color of their skin, but just by the party affiliation they have and, you know, the God they serve and that sort, uh, rather than the content of the character or the merits of the issue at hand, I'll show you not only a troubled society, but a society that's going towards its end, um, by its own destruction.

You know, I think that, you know, civil discourse really comes off as how do we interact with one another, with respect, right? To the point where we can not only coexist with people that have differences of opinions, but there's also a sense of at least curiosity to want to better understand one another, even if you come across where you still feel the opposite sides of the spectrum, there's at least some sort of investment.

That's worthwhile to you [00:29:00] to learn about the other person. If you're trying to call yourself a diverse society, because the biggest lie that comes off here when people talk about diversity is. Diversity is only skin deep. It's only based on what you see on the outside. Diversity in terms of what we think qualifies as well.

But if you don't have civil discourse and help people understand how to navigate different viewpoints and different thoughts and perspectives that might be influenced by one's culture, family, background, religion, and that sort, um, how can you truly call yourself one that thinks diversity is important?

It's funny if you go back not far in history, I'm a big fan of history. Uh, I think history should be taught at all costs and actual history, not, not doctored cleaned up prettier history, actual history. Cause, uh, I know the value. [00:30:00] I truly believe like you're doomed to repeat history if you don't learn from it,

Phillip Blackett: of course.

And if you're actively covering up you're wanting to repeat history as far as i'm concerned But you don't have to go far back in history to see where It was a show of respect

David McCarter: Or

someone's thought to actually challenge them or debate them or disagree with them like you can go back to you know earlier us some of the correspondence between like Mark Twain and right Samuel Clemens.

Sorry, we'll get that right. Uh, and, and some of the other thought leaders at the time are just phenomenal. Like going back and reading some of these, and it was true correspondence because they had to write letters at certain points. But if reading through some of that correspondence, these like, it is hilarious to read, but there was this value [00:31:00] to, oh, wow, this person cared enough to read my thought, actually think about it and disagree with me, you go back even farther to like, you know, Greek societies and right.

All of those philosophers were challenged regularly. And it was a sign of respect and somehow we devolved to the point where your opinion is so not worth anything to people or your thoughts that they just want to shut you down. They don't actually want to disagree with you. They don't want to discuss it with you.

It's disturbing that we've come that far in such a short span because there's always been disagreements, but it used to be a mark of respect when someone actually took the time to. Now you're just an internet troll, right? Everybody and their dog. And it's usually not even a good disagreement. I had a internet troll on Instagram.

Call me out. I did this post. It was 10 things [00:32:00] every man should be able to do. It was basic skills, man. You know, start a fire, wash your clothes, cook your own food. Right. I had a feminist just lose her mind on me. And everybody was like, no, don't engage. Don't engage. I was like, I'm absolutely engaging. They took the time to challenge me on it.

We're, we're engaging here. And it got down to, they didn't bother to look at my account. Like this is sexist. Like, why? Cause you said men should, I said, I think women should too. But my audience has been, did you bother to look at my profile? I'm a men's coach. I talked to men and they're like, Oh, I think these are life skills for anybody, but my audience is generally male.

And, but I, I enjoyed just because like, Oh, okay. Someone wants to actually push back on me. Cool. Let's [00:33:00] have that discussion. Let's talk about it.

Phillip Blackett: Well, and the key thing about that too, Brent was. We don't even fully read what you actually say because you said these are the ten things that all men should know how to do You didn't say the ten things that only Men should know how to do of which if that was the case for the the feminists in that situation Okay, I get it.

But it's like it's almost like when people talk about and I hate this word trigger Hate it It makes you feel a certain type of way, but it's like, it's almost like in a sense, like something happens and your whole rationale and logic goes out the window, it's just an emotional knee jerk reaction that, Oh, I gotta, I gotta tell Brent off because I just saw this headline.

I didn't fully understand what he was saying. I didn't take the time to know who he is and what he's doing, but I just gotta tell him how I feel. [00:34:00] You know, how he's impacted me, how he's oppressed me, how he's slandered me and do that publicly in a way so that I feel better about myself. And I think that's the thing was just like, you were speaking to your audience and there's another event that's happened recently where there was a speaker that said something to his audience, specific to his audience.

And that event became national news because people outside of his audience. Wanted to give their two cents on what they thought he said to his audience. He wasn't talking to everyone else. He was talking to his specific audience, but now people want to put their noses in business that quite frankly, don't need your noses in there to begin with.

We're being nosy.

I think it's, [00:35:00] I think part of it dials back to self esteem. I think everybody is so. Desperate to be validated because people aren't generally truly seen anymore. They don't have people in their life who validate who they are. And so we're desperate for validation online. I have that. I did something worthwhile.

I have validation, right? I'm valuable. Instead of having people in our lives, real relationships that, you know, validate our thoughts and our ideas and, you know, real actions. That help us, you know, with our self esteem and our self value. And now we're desperately online. Validate me, validate me. I have an opinion.

Yeah, you do. Please.

Phillip Blackett: Right. I beg of you, please. But I'll say this, Brent, [00:36:00] like what you just said actually makes me really excited because what you just shared, given you're a men's coach and given what your podcast is about, what you just illustrated is why I believe. Bodilessness is the biggest problem we're going through as a country.

Because if you think about it, you ask, people want to be validated as far as who they are. Who are the people that are most close to you, that know of you, that can truly validate who you are, beyond anyone else?

Hopefully your parents.

Phillip Blackett: Bingo, your mother and your father. Because here's the thing. If my mother and father loved me unconditionally, validated who I am, helped me get strong in who I am as a person, as far as identity.[00:37:00]

It really should not matter as much about what the world outside of our home thinks of me. Problem is, many people did not have that type of validation from one or both parents. And you are basically going around the real world trying to find validation elsewhere. Whether it's in another person, if it's in a certain behavior, if it's in a substance, whatever the case may be.

And the problem that comes with that is, yeah, online is just a gateway to help you further confuse yourself or further go down the validation trap where you're asking random people that you've never met before, you probably will never meet to like me, to comment on my content, to agree with me, don't disagree with me, share my stuff.

And the [00:38:00] problem is, is that for me, I've had to learn that my first ministry, if anything, is my own household. If I get my relationships right with my wife and my kids, the whole world could hate me like they hated Jesus. But if I get it right with my wife and my kids, and that they feel loved, they feel validated, and that's consistent, that is the most important thing.

And then I can think about how to go outside the household to have an impact. But a lot of people, unfortunately, they don't have that validation. They didn't have it growing up. And if you don't have it from your household, from your parents, from your family, You're inevitably going to try to look for it elsewhere.

I think I can, we, we, we could jump down a whole nother show just on that. Honestly, pretty positive. Uh, I want to [00:39:00] expand a little bit on, you mentioned echo chambers earlier. I actually years ago, I want to say we were joking off camera about how, how fast time flies, like it felt like yesterday. I want to say back prior to the 2016 election, I actually went out of my way.

To start following a independent news source, because I had given up on mainstream media already at that point, but I found an independent news source that had much further left leaning toward than I do much more liberal policies. But. I started listening to him because at least they were honest when they report on something, he'd be like, the mainstream media is reporting this, but that's crap.

What was actually said, what we know factually is this now you can draw your opinion from it, but there's the facts we actually know, and you can't take that away from this person, whether you [00:40:00] like them or not, it was like, okay. I did. I wanted a source outside of my direct line of thought, right. To look at it's like, okay, why is everybody so rattled about this?

Why, why do we have some people with this? Why is this so polarizing? Right? So I wanted a source coming from a different direction so I could honestly understand the other side of the argument. It was really funny to watch. That news source shift as people got more radical, uh, and, and change their viewpoints radically over a couple of years, uh, to the point where like the, the host at one point was like, dang it, Democrats, why are you making me want to like this guy?

Stop going. So just nuclear on stuff. Um, it was, it was great to actually watch. But I purposely went away from that because I realized how [00:41:00] prevalent echo chambers were becoming. And I wanted to make sure that I wasn't necessarily going down that rabbit hole on this particular, and it was political situation, right?

Why are, what, why do we need to avoid echo chambers?

Phillip Blackett: Because it's not reality. It's not the real world. Like, you thinking everyone's gonna think the same as you are. You know, why don't we just get into one of those teletubble Teletubby bubbles. Right?

Bonus for teletubby jokes.

Phillip Blackett: Uh, play It's a Small World After All over and over and over again.

and just call it a day. Like, we got to grow up at some point and recognize that the reality is there's a lot of different points of view and viewpoints flying around, not just nationally but internationally. You can't necessarily separate yourself out of that, especially in this age of [00:42:00] social media, um, where you can know exactly what's happening around the world and what people have to say about it.

So to think about isolating yourself And saying, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. I don't care what you have to say. I have my own truth and this is what it is. And no one can tell me otherwise. And I will only subscribe to people that affirm and validate what I have to say. La la la la la. Usually people have a word for that.

I'll try to say it again.

I have a few words for that. None of them are nice.

Phillip Blackett: Right. So I was trying to come up with the least offensive word. Um, but that's what people are. realizing for themselves when they get involved with that, right? It's one of those things that people aren't being honest with themselves because if you want to isolate yourself [00:43:00] from everyone else, just say that, just be honest and just say, Hey, listen, I don't care about what other people have to say to the point that I am not open to what anyone else has to say.

If it disagrees with what I think, and I'm going to separate myself. from anybody that thinks that way, by all means, just be honest. I would appreciate and respect that a lot more than trying to guise it as something different. But I do think it's a problem because you're not being realistic with yourself.

You're not being honest with yourself. Um, and that could be a problem.

Philip,

make your best argument for why we should start to value actual cordial disagreements where we actually sit down with other people who think [00:44:00] differently or have different opinions. Make your best argument for why we need to start doing that regularly in our own lives, even.

Phillip Blackett: Cause the way we're doing it currently is not the right way to go.

And that's the nicest I could put it compared to what I originally wanted to say about it. If you think about it, everything around us. involves relationships, everything. And if we can't have a way to talk to one another with respect, with being cordial, being nice, being compassionate, um, that's going to impact the level and quality of our relationships.

If we don't have a way to understand one another, even if we disagree, that's going to impact the level of our relationships with people. And [00:45:00] that can even be within your own household too. If people can't feel comfortable to share what they feel honestly and be able to share it with you, which is a means of intimacy because you're learning something about them that they didn't tell you before.

You did not know this beforehand, but they at least are open enough to share that with you when they could have kept it hidden. If we don't have a way to honor that, And hear that person out, even if at the end of the day, we see it things differently. You're going to have a lot more people closing up.

You're going to have a lot more people not being trusting of you to the point where they will have a lot of skeletons in their closet. They will have a lot of things you did not know about that person. You'll [00:46:00] say, Oh, I never knew that about you. Well, the last time I said something to you, you shut me down.

So fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. You have a lot of people not wanting to fool themselves twice here, where when we show our hand that we can't hear people out, appreciate where they're coming from, at the very least to share that information with us and us to have a dialogue rather than a ego driven debate where I feel compelled to land victoriously over you, if for nothing else, I have my ego to protect.

my precious ego, then yeah, the state of relationships for us as humans. Well, going down the drain for sure. We got to do better

guys. We've been discussing the lost [00:47:00] art of civil discourse and moreover, cordial disagreements, which is just my obnoxious way of saying, having conversations with people who don't agree with you and still being okay.

In this part of the show, Phillip's going to share with us a five step framework. He has worked out for respectfully disagreeing with people without necessarily having to totally disconnect for them the rest of her life, because This extreme has just gotten stupid at this point. Uh, we're dividing families.

We're dividing friends over stupid disagreements. On things that don't really matter in the long run for that relationship. And I'm tired of it. So Philip has developed this framework. I'm really excited to hear this because I think we all use this in our lives. Philip, I'm going to get out of your way and just let you share your five step framework where we can disagree with people without disrespecting each other.

Phillip Blackett: Perfect. Thanks so much, Brent. So when I think about it, you know, five steps, how to disagree without disrespect, um, that [00:48:00] framework. I wanted to keep it simple that everyone could essentially understand that it's something that they can follow, like we can do this, right? Um, so let's start with step one.

First step is to separate the idea or belief from the identity of the believer. And why that's important is because oftentimes we come into a world nowadays that depending on the person we talk to, that idea or belief we might disagree with. For that other person, they may be so intertwined with that idea or belief that it becomes who he or she is.

It has become their identity. And the challenge with that is, what essentially happens is that by me disagreeing with the idea, the person hearing that may say, Oh, you don't like me. Or I criticize that idea of belief. And now they think I'm being critical of [00:49:00] who they are as a person. So they're likely to take it personal, be defensive about it, And all of a sudden they're trying to protect themselves, their own self esteem, their ego.

And now the debate can go off a completely different route. Second step is we can disagree with the belief or the idea, and we can love the believer. So this is kind of a play off of something that I learned in church where you hate the sin and love the sinner. One of the things that I learned from my mom, which was a huge.

inspiration behind my book is when she shared with me, Philip, just because I disagree with you, that does not mean that I don't love you. You see, we live in a world [00:50:00] nowadays that people often equate love with agreement to love and respect someone is contingent on whether or not you agree with them wholeheartedly on just about every issue.

In the moment that you say you disagree with them, now it's a question of whether or not you care about them at all. And we have to be truthful about this. We have to be adults in the room here. We have to be honest with one another and say, Hey, It is possible, two things can be true, that I can disagree with what you're saying, and I can still respect and love you as a person, as a friend, as a colleague, as my spouse or significant other, as my child, as my father or mother.

And so now once you set the ground works here, now we can actually get into a debate after these two steps. The third step [00:51:00] is, quite simply, debate the idea at hand, just based on its merit. And what do I mean by just on its merit? I'm asking us to include and focus on the facts, the logic, the analysis, the research, the performance, the results.

You know, the things where you can more objectively look at two issues and having more apples to apples comparison on whether or not this one makes more sense versus the other. What we're not going to engage in is name calling, because oftentimes when I get into debates, the person who first gets into name calling oftentimes has run out of substance for his or her argument.

And So now you resort to an almost desperate fashion [00:52:00] to call somebody outside of their name, to try to curse them out, to try to make them look bad, to shame them rather than sticking to the issue at hand and proving that your issue is indeed the better solution is the better choice. Another thing we're not going to do, keep this debate respectful is get caught up in overdramatic emotional responses.

You know, the moment you say you disagree with somebody. And they get caught up in such an emotional furor about themselves that now I feel awkward to even respond or engage in the conversation. Because now I'm looking for Kleenexes to wipe somebody's tears because they're so triggered or taken aback by the fact that I disagree with what they had to say.

It should focus just on the issue at hand. Which one is better? A meritocracy. Just like a competition in sports. [00:53:00] Which team had more points at the end? That team's the winner. Which idea or belief comes off as better, that should be the winner. And so even after that debate, you debated just on its merits, you go into step four.

We should take a lesson from what we learned when we played sports as youth. When the game was finished, win or lose. Whether you came to my side on the agreement or the argument or vice versa, or maybe we stayed on opposite sides, or even as some third alternative we weren't even anticipating in the first place.

comes about. Let's take a lesson from what we learned from youth sports. Let's still practice today. We shake hands, we say good game and congratulate the other. What am I meaning? Be a good sport [00:54:00] after the debate. Don't be a sore loser. Don't be a sore winner either. Good sportsmanship is still important in our debates going forward.

And so when you think about that, that leads into the final step. You be a good sport about it. You've had a good talk about it, a good debate. Where do you go from here? Step five is essentially respecting and loving that person. Even if you disagree with them, you know, we can just chalk that up to agree to disagree afterwards or diversity of thought, but more importantly, prioritize the relationship over being right or wrong here and keep the door open for ongoing dialogue so we can further explore this together.

You can go about this and say, Hey, John, I really appreciate us talking [00:55:00] about this. I better appreciate you sharing the backstory on why this particular topic or issue is so important to you and why you feel that more should be done for it. Even if we disagree and don't see eye to eye on this one, I can at least appreciate you sharing this with me.

And I actually would love to learn more about where you're coming from, maybe over lunch. Maybe there's an event that has the same topic on campus that we can go to together. And then talk about it afterwards, just keep the conversation going, because the unfortunate part nowadays is when people get into quote unquote debates, usually is a one time thing, because in the process, we're so rude to one another.

We're so aggressive, so mean to one another, that there is no relationship afterwards. There is no opening the door. The door is open. Closed shut [00:56:00] with a padlock on it. If that was going to be the case, then I could see why people would argue. It doesn't make sense to debate at all because it's not worth losing a loved one or relationship with someone you care about over trying to prove who's right or who's wrong.

But what I'm trying to share with you here is it is possible to keep the relationship going if you at least try to adopt this framework. The next time you come across somebody who has a different point of view,

Philip, can this be applied to any and every relationship?

Phillip Blackett: Absolutely. Part of the thing with the subtitle of the book, you know, how to respectfully debate with those who think, believe, and vote differently from you.

A lot of people focus on one word or another, oftentimes vote, but the challenge is that when I say, think differently, believe differently, vote differently, [00:57:00] that applies to every relationship, every setting that could be in the boardroom, in the classroom, and even in the living room.

Now, guys, I failed to mention Philip wrote an entire book on this.

So I'll link that in the show notes. Uh, if you need to go deeper into this topic, right, because Philip explains it more in his book. Uh, he does have an entire book on this. You guys check out, he's also written several things on AI, which I think is very cool, uh, and how you can use that as a small business owner.

So if you are an entrepreneur or a business owner, you need to check out some Phil's work. He's written several books, actually. What is next for Phillip Blackett?

Phillip Blackett: So I think what's next for me is tending first to my first ministry, which is caring for my wife and kids each day. And then beyond that, [00:58:00] taking on this mission, as far as how can I have a positive influence and impact on the world around me, and if it's through my books, let that be the case.

Um, if it's working with small business owners to use AI to grow their businesses, Let that be the case. If it's me doing more speaking like this to people, to different audiences around the world, sharing about how we can disagree without being disrespectful, to help bring more civil discourse and more respectful debate and honoring diversity of thought in our societies, in our homes, in our communities, in our workplaces.

Let that be the case too. So, um, I would say more than likely a mix of all three.

Now guys, let me press the point. Just one second. You don't have to agree with everybody. That's not what we're saying, but you don't have to be a bozo about it. [00:59:00] You, you can. Have a difference of opinion with somebody that's okay.

Like really it's okay. You're not going to agree with everybody. There's what, 8 billion people on this planet at this point. Uh, you'll do well to agree with a few, honestly. So it's okay to disagree with people, but we need to stop throwing people out with the bath water over small disagreements. There.

Let me

Phillip Blackett: put this in perspective too, Brandon, if I can real quick. So I've been married for eight years. Love my wife. If the survival of my marriage was based on us agreeing on everything, we probably would not have made it past the honeymoon stage. So what do I mean by that? Every relationship you come across people you disagree with on [01:00:00] something, even the most intimate and loving of relationships you do.

So if that's the case with a marriage. One that is your soulmate that you're with till death. Do you part, what do you expect for those people that you aren't married to? And so the thought is, is that if you can be the most intimate with one person in a marriage and still have disagreements and still find a way to make it work, I do believe we can do the same for people that we aren't in that type of relationship with as well.

Uh, Philip, thank you for having this conversation. Cause I think this is really important, and it is, in my opinion, something we're losing the ability to do for some reason. Where is the best place for people to connect with you?

Phillip Blackett: Absolutely. So you can check out my book, Disagree Without Disrespect, how to respectfully debate with those who think, believe, and [01:01:00] vote differently from you.

On Amazon, you can look it up by the book title. You can look it up by my name, Philip Blackett, P H I L I P B L A C K E T T. There, you'll be able to find that book, the books I talked about, um, or that Brent referred to regarding AI and some of the other books that are on Amazon as well. Uh, you can also go on my website, philipblackett.

com or connect with me on social media. I'm on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube. Just look up my name. Philip Blackett.

And of course we'll have all of his links in the show notes or on the description, depending on which platform you're enjoying the show on. Uh, absolutely recommend you connect with Philip.

Now I know you're all concerned about where Nathan's hot dog eating contest takes place because that's our next vacation spot, right? That's. That's what I'm doing on my vacation this year. You guessed Coney Island. You are a hundred percent right. Uh, it happens at Coney Island. [01:02:00] Uh, I honestly don't know where Coney Island is.

I think it's, uh, in around the New York area, but I don't know. Never. I guess it's something I saw on a Disney movie once it's Coney Island, right? It's, uh, but Hey, if you're, uh, into Nathan's hot dog eating contest, it is weird to watch. I've seen online clips. Uh, it's, it's something I like a chili dog, man.

I love chili dogs. It's one of my favorite foods, but. Yeah. Now, just, just now it was weird, uh, Philip, if our audience heard nothing else today, what is the most important takeaway you want them to hear?

Phillip Blackett: So early I said, you know, one thing to know about me before we got started was that I love you. That's what all this is coming from.

It's coming from love because what's the point of me sharing all this and I don't have love in my heart helps you live a better life that helps you [01:03:00] have better relationships with the people you care about. What's the point if that's not the case. So, uh, if nothing else, um, it is possible to disagree with somebody and still real respect and love that person in a healthy relationship

guys for Phillip, myself, thanks for hanging out with us today. Be sure and check out this other video that's being suggested if you're on YouTube and I've got another episode for you guys down in the show notes. If you're on the audio platforms, check them out better tomorrow, because what you do today and we'll see on the next one,

David McCarter: this has been the Fallible Man podcast, your home for everything, man, husband and father, be sure to subscribe.

So you don't miss a show, head over to www. thefallibleman.com for more content and get your own Fallible Man [01:04:00] gear.