Finding Strength Through Surrender: An Adventure Athlete's Wisdom

Dawson, just starting out the show. I wanted to ask you, what advice do you have for individuals who feel stuck and unsure on how to move forward in their lives?

Matt Dawson: Hit me with a, hit me with a good one from the start here. It's

D Brent Dowlen: people want to listen, right?

Matt Dawson: Yeah. I'll tell you, there's so many directions I can take that because I've, I'm still that individual to a degree, you know, today, cause there's still a lot I want to do and I, and I can feel stuck at times.

And I was certainly that individual for many decades. I think the biggest thing is that we have more of the answers inside of us than we realize. And it's a matter of taking some time and figuring out how to sit quiet, quietly with ourselves to hear those answers. Number one. And secondly, to demonstrate the strength and resolve, to pursue those answers.

Once we see them.

D Brent Dowlen: Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential, growing to the men we dream of becoming while taking care of our responsibilities, [00:01:00] working and living? Living, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves? Well, that's the big question. And in this podcast, we'll help you with those answers and more.

My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man podcast. Welcome to the Fallible Man podcast, your home for all things, man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation. That's our long time listeners and a warm welcome to our first time listeners. We know there's a lot competing for your attention.

So from the bottom of my heart, Thanks for giving us a chance today. I hope you enjoy the show. My name is Brent. Today. My guest is six time world record holding endurance and adventure athlete and founder of the Dawson's Creek foundation, Matt Dawson, Dawson, welcome to the show.

Matt Dawson: Hey, I appreciate you having me on and, uh, sorry to you.

One small correction and we get this all the time, but the organization is Dawson's peak P E A K foundation. Oh, my goodness. I'm

D Brent Dowlen: sorry. I read that so wrong. All right, guys, we know this is why we call it the fallible man. Cause, uh, Honestly,

Matt Dawson: obviously that's where the name came from. Was it play on Dawson's Creek and listen, it [00:02:00] happens all the time.

So no problem at all.

D Brent Dowlen: See, that's that's like, like I said, it's fallible, man. I just put it out there right from the start. So people know I'm going to

Matt Dawson: set that tempo.

D Brent Dowlen: Usually it's the name. Usually I just blow someone's name entirely. Your name is just too simple. That's, you know, straightforward. So guys, Dawson is a six time world record endurance athlete and adventure athlete.

So. We have a trivia question not for him for you guys to mull over during the course of this show I want to throw this out there now Matt and his partner rode across the Atlantic Ocean some 3084 miles if I read that correctly.

Matt Dawson: Yeah,

D Brent Dowlen: that's that's crazy Just like I'm not sure if you're brilliant or mad.

Honestly, like that just terrifies me But guys, here's the question. How long do you think it took Dawson and his partner to get across the ocean? Did it take a two weeks, B 53 days, C [00:03:00] one month or D 61 days? You guys think about that mullet over while we get into the rest of this and uh, we'll come back at the end and see if you guessed right on Matt's record.

See, I told you I'm going to keep just going back and forth and back and forth.

Matt Dawson: Well, I think I've got some insights and I've got my opinion on that question. I've got where my guess is, but, uh, we'll see if I'm right at the show.

D Brent Dowlen: Dawson. In your own words today, not, not what you do, not the whole world you've created in your words today, who is Matt Dawson?

Matt Dawson: Man, I'm telling you, you're hitting, you start with these strong questions. First thing in the morning here, it's, uh, yeah, Matt Dawson is it to refer to myself in the third person is, is very much a work in progress, I think more than anything, it's, uh, he, he's, he's someone that, that is, has finally started to figure out the direction of his life.

And to understand what he wants life to be about [00:04:00] and the impact that he wants to have on others, but, uh, still figuring out how to do that, you know, most effectively. And I think that's the, you know, the kind of easiest way to put it.

D Brent Dowlen: I tell you, I like to hit those questions that just like, Oh, okay. It made me think I mainly I just do it to make people talk about themselves in the third person.

Cause I know it's

Matt Dawson: very uncomfortable,

D Brent Dowlen: but you know, truth be said, that I'm glad that's uncomfortable for you. Cause I've met a lot of people that are very comfortable with that.

Matt Dawson: Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: And it's like, Hmm. I'm

Matt Dawson: telling you the, the records are the easiest part. It's getting out there and the self promotion is the difficult part, you know, of all this stuff, but it's, it's, it's like with what you're doing with your podcast and with everything that you're building is, I think you're a great representation of it as well is it's not about us as individuals in personal glorification.

It's about, you know, how we can take this stuff [00:05:00] and apply it to help elevate others and be of greater service to others and to live that purpose, you know, with the impact that you're having on others. And that's what I continuously have to remind myself, you know, as we, as we go through this stuff.

D Brent Dowlen: Well, you know, it's entertaining.

Cause I talked to a lot of people, but I find a lot of men who they want to impact the world in a big way. They want to stretch and grow and encourage others are generally some of the worst self promoters out there. It's just, they want to do their thing, man. And they want other people to be elevated by that.

But then you're like, well, you got to talk about it. And they're like, uh, do I though? How about you talk it out? I'll just do the thing you talk.

Matt Dawson: I'm sure you've heard it is that, you know, I think there's kind of two schools of thought is, is if you got it, flaunt it. And if you, if you got it, you don't have to flaunt it.

And that, that's my, that's very much the approach that I have is I'd rather just, just do my thing. [00:06:00] And if you need to hear about it, you'll hear about it. If you need to know who I am, you'll know who I am. And it just, the self promotion, especially today, you know, it's all the social media and this and that it's, it's, it's just very important to me as an individual and also to us as an organization that we're doing the right things in the right ways, you know, for the right reasons.

And, you know, to, to really, you know, to make sure we're authentic, you know, to who I am, to who we are, to our messaging, but it's something that's at the forefront. Messaging.

D Brent Dowlen: I love it, Matt. We're going to jump into the speed round. This is purely just for fun guys. If you don't enjoy this part, I'll have timestamps below, but I like to kind of get a feel for the people behind who we're talking to above just the, yeah, we're going to talk about this.

Okay. So here's speed round. I got like five questions for you. Ready?

Matt Dawson: I'm ready.

D Brent Dowlen: Orange juice, pulp, some pulp, no pulp.

Matt Dawson: Oh, a lot of pulp.

D Brent Dowlen: Okay. What purchase of 100 or less have you made in the last year that's had the biggest impact on your life? [00:07:00]

Matt Dawson: A little ninja, uh, little ninja bullet for grinding up, uh, shakes in the morning.

After work I have

D Brent Dowlen: one

Matt Dawson: of those, I love

D Brent Dowlen: that. Batman or Superman?

Matt Dawson: Oh, man. Bat.

D Brent Dowlen: Is cereal soup?

Matt Dawson: Is cereal soup? Uh, no. Cause I ate soup. But I like cereal. Weapon

D Brent Dowlen: of choice in the zombie apocalypse?

Matt Dawson: Uh, baseball bat. Alright. Hey, see,

D Brent Dowlen: speed round's easy. It's funny cause like, all men have thought of these questions. It's funny. Almost every single man in the world. I like, I, I will bet on it had thought of almost every one of these answers. And like Batman and Superman is like hard camp. Like people are like either one or the other.

It's so funny to me

Matt Dawson: on a percentage basis. You think, where do you think more people fall on that one? Is it, is it pretty clear delineation of like, is there [00:08:00] pretty evenly split or is there kind of more in one camp than another?

D Brent Dowlen: I think Batman tends to win out the most. Um, But it's, it's not for why I would have fought for a lot of people.

It's, it's Batman because Superman is just too goody, goody. And I think everybody can acknowledge to themselves that all of us have, you know, a darker side to us that's kind of poking the bear. And I think, uh, I think that's why Batman usually wins. It's not, not because Bruce Wayne's rich, like stupidly rich.

It's Superman is just too unrelatable.

Matt Dawson: That's interesting. I didn't think about that. I went with Batman because he, at least he has to earn it. Superman was given all these things and, and Batman has put some more effort in to either create, you know, create the thing or to, to, it seems like he has to try a little bit harder.

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah. Yeah. Superman is just too [00:09:00] unrelatable. We don't, we don't know how to connect with that. I was always surprised. It was such a popular comic book and it's like, I don't get the appeal, man. I don't. So. Matt, I told you I'm gonna do it over and over again. Dawson, you prefer Dawson. One of these days I'll get that right.

Dawson, what is something everybody needs to know about you before we get into the focus of today's show?

Matt Dawson: You know, I think more than anything is that, you know, communicating the message, you know, that, that I am at, you know, for our organization, Dawson's Creek Foundation. Is that, you know, I don't have all the answers and, and, you know, just like the name of this, uh, this podcast is, is I'm as, as fallible, you know, as the next man, and, you know, the reason that I'm sharing what I've learned, you know, across all the things, you know, that I've done, it's just that I see the positive impact it's had on my life [00:10:00] and, and I honestly feel that that is my purpose in life is to, is to share that experience and to get people to hopefully live lives on their end.

Of greater purpose and service, because I know what it is to be lost alone in that darkness for so many decades, where you feel like you're kind of floundering. You don't feel like you have purpose. You don't want to get out of bed. You know, it's, it's, you know, whether you you're buying something or going somewhere or, or with people or whatever, nothing ever feels like it's, it's fulfilling that hole inside of you.

And, you know, and, and finally kind of getting through that place into a better place. Is I just, I want to share that message to help people avoid that. You know, and hopefully help in some small way.

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D Brent Dowlen: Hey guys, we've been getting to know Dawson just a little bit, taking a peek behind the hood, uh, in, in our kind of fashion, even with my silly questions in this part of the show, we're going to dive into Dawson's philosophies on why men should get physical.

And when we say physical, we're [00:12:00] not talking about going to a box gym necessarily, but we're going to get into that. But before we dive down that rabbit hole, Dawson. We, we got to, got to start with some, you know, a little, a little,

what's the right word? That's what happens when I get totally off script. We got, we got to start with a perspective point. How do you go from the corporate world to endurance adventure athlete?

Matt Dawson: Yeah, it's more than anything, it's, it's a shift in mindset. Is that there, there are some very, there are a lot of similarities there is that, you know, I was doing, you know, corporate invested banking for about 15 years before I made the switch, you know, I was selling, I was focusing on mergers acquisitions, selling companies between about 50 million and 250 million, you know, working 80 to a hundred hours a week.

And it just, it, it took a big commitment there. There are big things at stake, you know, when you're doing stuff like that is that a lot of the people that we worked with were, were entrepreneurs that had, [00:13:00] that had started these companies and, and run 'em for, you know, 50 years. The family have had 'em for a hundred years, whatever.

So there, there's a lot at at stake where you, you can't, you know, you know, mess these things up. And so when you, when when I transitioned to the endurance, I, I took a lot of that mindset into it. Where it's that, you know, a lot of hours, a lot of dedication, a lot of, uh, attention to detail, you know, things like that.

But, uh, you know, the biggest thing was looking for that greater sense of purpose and fulfillment is no matter what I was doing with the banking, you know, I was making a good living and living a nice lifestyle, but there was just, there was this sense of emptiness inside of me and no matter what I did or the trips I took or the people I was with or whatever, it just is this, this emptiness would just continue to grow.

And I didn't understand how to deal with it or, or, or how to get past it or whatever. And, you know, once I finally understood kind of, you know, my purpose in the world of, of trying to help people live with a greater sense of [00:14:00] purpose and to be of service, you know, the, all the adventure and endurance stuff, it's, it's simply a vehicle to facilitate a greater conversation about those topics.

It's not an end all be all like, I'm not out there climbing a mountain just to climb a mountain. It's to get people to, to, you know, to, to understand, you know, what we're capable of. They're all capable of more. And like I said, really just to facilitate greater conversations on these topics.

D Brent Dowlen: It's amazing. I, after several years of doing this, I I've talked to a lot of guests and I hear this resounding commonality of, you know, I was doing this and like, I just didn't feel fulfilled.

Like I was doing what I was meant to do. Like I was reaching my purpose. Uh, over and over again. I just, I just hear this from men who made these radical shifts and are much happier and better off. [00:15:00] So from that position, are you, do you feel like you are more fulfilled now in a better position for you?

Matt Dawson: Uh, in terms of position financially, certainly not, it has not been the, it has not been a wise financial decision, but, uh, as an individual, and I think that's a great term that you use fulfilled.

Is I've never been more fulfilled in my life is when, you know, when you, when you're getting up every day and you know what you're doing and why you're doing it and you really have a purpose behind your purpose and pursuing your purpose is that's a, you know, kind of once you're on that path, it makes everything worth it.

And that's not to say that every day I'm excited about going out and training for, you know, three to six hours because there's certainly, there are plenty of times I'd rather be doing anything else in the world than going out and climbing another mountain today because it's the last thing in the world I want to do.

But it's like you, you can take yourself out of that, that, that, you know, that smaller [00:16:00] focus and kind of sit back at that 20, 000 foot view and say, hey, this is all part of a greater mission, you know, that I'm on. And it is, it's, there's, there's nothing that, you know, that feels quite like it.

D Brent Dowlen: Would you trade the financial security of your old life for the way you feel now?

Matt Dawson: No, go back to it. No, there's, there's no question. Look, I could, I could do that. I could, I could shutter everything tomorrow and go back to that lifestyle and, you know, do all that kind of stuff, but it's been, uh, you know, i've been on this road since, uh, late 2016. And it's just, it's what I've committed to.

And, and, uh, it, it, look, it, it's certainly been, uh, a much more difficult road than I imagined going into it, which a lot of these things are, you know, when you make these transitions and especially if you're trying to do it at a high level, it's, I thought I knew what I was getting myself into and, and, but what, what that, what the journey has actually looked like has been a thousand times harder, but it's also been a thousand times more, you know, more fulfilling.

And it's like, you know, [00:17:00] having a chance to come on and, and, and, and meet guys like yourself. It just in, in here and see the impact that we can, that we've been having on people, you know, firsthand with people that have been supporting us and, and working with, you know, Gary C foundation, hope for the warriors, it's just, it's changed my life.

And it's, it's something that I would never trade for, you know, for anything.

D Brent Dowlen: And also when we talk about getting physical, right, I'm, I'm a big, big advocate for, I think men need to exercise just for our mental health benefits, right? Uh, men need that physical challenge, but When we, when I say you're in, you think men should get physical.

We're not talking about going down to the box, anytime fitness and spending a couple of minutes on the treadmill. So let's talk about grueling physical challenges. Cause I mean, you went like, you didn't go fee first, man. You just like dove in to this insane world that most people will never jump into.

Matt Dawson: Yeah, it's, uh, yeah, I've [00:18:00] got some, some good qualities, but moderation is certainly not one of them. Um, I'm not, I'm not good in the middle. And it, it, it's funny is, is, uh, I don't know if you know, the, the country artist, Cody jinx, but I'm a, I'm a big Cody jinx fan and probably my favorite song that he sings is called somewhere in the middle

D Brent Dowlen: and I just

Matt Dawson: have to laugh at the irony of it that I love the song, but I hate the message, you know, it's, I've got to be, uh, uh, you know, just how my personality works.

Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: So when you're talking about men getting physically active, we're not talking about just light workouts. You want them to like pursue. Some real physical effort here.

Matt Dawson: No, it's, it's a good question. And it's really relative is that, you know, look on average, I train 21 hours a week and sometimes it's, it's, it's, you know, more than that.

It's, it's, you know, in the, in the high twenties and, you know, I don't expect people to get out there and to dedicate three hours a day, you know, to training. So, you know, sometimes, you know, all you [00:19:00] have is, is 30 minutes or you have an hour or whatever it is. So I think that's important is that you don't have to hit a specific number.

It's more about like what you're saying is so often, especially in today's, you know, today's age with computers and technology and this level of connectivity and this and that is that, you know, everybody's getting stuck more and more in their heads. And we forget about our bodies. We forget about our hearts.

And look, I lived in my head. For decades, I lacked the understanding that my body was even there and I lacked the ability to get down into my body and through physical, you know, performance, whether it's, you know, climbing a mountain or doing the class or meditation, you know, things like that is it enables us to get out of our head down into our bodies and to move freely between the two.

And that's that's what we're meant to do. Is you can't think your way out of everything. You can't feel your way out of everything. You've got to move between the two and that the physical movement and the physical exertion helps us, you know, to do that [00:20:00] more effectively.

D Brent Dowlen: Now you came upon this after you decided you needed a break and we're hiking around the base of Everest.

Is that correct?

Matt Dawson: Yeah. In a nutshell is, is, uh, yeah, we can get into the story, but yeah, it essentially is, uh, It's, it's, um, I'd reached a point, you know, professionally where I'd reached a certain level of success and, you know, could have the, you know, whatever I wanted within, you know, within reason. And to the point that you mentioned earlier is nothing was, was fulfilling those needs any longer.

And I don't care if it was, you know, a car or a motorcycle, a trip or whatever is, there's a sense of this sense of emptiness. Um, my mother passed away. I broke up with a, with a, a serious girlfriend. And I just reached that stage where I was like, look, it's, I've got to move this one direction or another.

I'm either going all in or I'm going all out. And I mean that like, literally I was at that point. And, uh, so I traveled to Everest and, uh, spent about, uh, two and a half, three weeks traveling alone [00:21:00] around that Mount Everest region, just, you know, hiking in various places. And that's, you know, you know, along that trip or during that trip is when I really kind of had this breakdown and a breakthrough and, and kind of started to see a vision of what I wanted my life to look like and started to pursue it.

D Brent Dowlen: Isn't it amazing how if you get out into nature and into clean air and into just moving back to the very basics of being men, there's this like this clarity to start just to creep in.

Matt Dawson: It is. It's, I think that's a great way of putting it. Cause you know, a lot of times it's more, we, especially in day to day society, it's about more.

It's like, what more can I do? Or what more, Hacks. Can I learn or products? Can I purchase? It's just like this more, more, more. When normally the answer is less, it's stripping all this stuff away. And when you head into the mountains, you know, especially the [00:22:00] Himalayas is everything gets stripped away from you.

It's like, you don't have all these creature comforts. You don't have the technology, you don't have all these things. So it's actually less. And what I really enjoy about it is this feeling of insignificance. Is that an everyday life? It's everybody's is kind of prioritizing themselves, making themselves the star of their TV shows on, on social media and this and that, but you get into the mountains and you understand your place in the world, you understand that we're all just other organ, you know, just an organism trying to survive and it's just that feeling of insignificance and of, of greater perspective, which is what you get in nature, especially in big place like the Himalayas.

Is what led me to my, you know, again, to my breakdown and breakthrough. And just it literally in a moment, in a single moment, my life changed. Of course, my life changed my understanding of the reasons I'm here changed, and it helps to, to kind of re solidify the power and magnitude of every single second [00:23:00] that we take, that we typically take for granted in our everyday lives.

When life can literally change it and never be the same again.

D Brent Dowlen: And Matt, you, you've done some amazing things. You've done the seven summits. Uh, If people don't know what that is, that's, that's the seven highest peaks, right? It's the one on each continent. It's like the

Matt Dawson: highest on each continent. Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: And did I see you, you hiked across the Mo heavy Mojave desert.

Matt Dawson: Yeah. So I've done, uh, I've actually done two full, uh, solo unsupported crossings across the Mojave. One was 213 miles. One was just shy of 330 miles.

D Brent Dowlen: I like said, I, I'm not sure if you're bordering on brilliant or just super inspirational or crazy. But you're not suggesting people have to go to that extreme, right? I want to make this really clear for our listeners because I can hear people going, yeah, I'm not climbing Everest, right? So let's get this really clear.

You're not saying they have to [00:24:00] go to that extreme.

Matt Dawson: No, I'm glad you brought that up. Is, is that, that's a huge thing to understand is that look, my journey is my journey and you know, all this stuff that I'm doing, is, is simply, it's kind of like a Trojan horse, you know, like I said earlier, to facilitate a greater conversation and it's, it's kind of played out now to say, you know, what's your Everest or what's your this or what's your that.

But look, that's essentially what it is. It's, these are things that, that I enjoy doing. But to your point, which is a good one is you don't have to go out and do all these, you know, climb, you know, you roll across the Atlantic ocean. It's, you know, we all have things that are relative in our lives that that create, you know, a consternation inside of us or that we're concerned about or that we're hesitant to face or that we're, you know, think that are bigger than we are, that, that, that's all it is, is that it's, it's, you know, you find what's relative in your life and you start, you know, kind of knocking these things off.

D Brent Dowlen: So I guess that might be that you [00:25:00] need to join that gym finally are actually fully commit and make that a solid habit where it's not like a one off here and there. You know, Jim, remember Jim's actually count on those people who joined in January and are locked in for a year or two and never actually show up.

Matt Dawson: Yeah, they

D Brent Dowlen: love you because you don't break their equipment and you just keep giving them money. Uh, so maybe it's time you get serious about that. Maybe like my friend Coleman OCR, you get into Spartan races or Tough Mudders or something like that because it takes you out of your comfort zone. That's what I did.

I got into the corporate world and spent all this time at a desk. That's And I saw this picture on my friend's computer of him and his daughter doing this thing. I'm like, what is that? And like that sparked a whole new stretch in my life. It's like, yes, I got to get out and do something physical. I'm tired of being stuck in a cubicle.

So

Matt Dawson: it's, uh, let's say, um, sorry, I lost my train of thought there. It's [00:26:00] before I started all this stuff. Is I couldn't, I could not, and I'm being serious when I say this, I couldn't find Everest on a map. Like I knew basically where it was. I like it's over there in that area. Like in that, yeah, I could like circle it, you know, but I had no idea.

And the thought of rolling an ocean or climbing a mountain, it sounded terrible. I was like, why in the hell would anybody go do that? It's it's, these are for crazy people. I had zero interest, like literally zero interest in it. So it's, it's. It's something that, you know, that you can grow into, you know, doing these different things.

But to your point is, you know, your Everest proverbial Everest, it might be, look, having a conversation with someone that like a serious conversation with a close family member that you've been putting off for 20 years. You know, it might be like you said, is it just starting a routine in the morning of finding 20 minutes for yourself?

It's, it's like these little things that are, that are all relative, but all these things add up and, you know, then you can kind of figure out, you know, the direction you want to take them and the magnitude to which you want to practice it. [00:27:00]

D Brent Dowlen: Also, when you share with us some of the lessons that you've learned for those of us who are not ready, like, you know, I, like I said, I'm not going to ever see anytime soon, but you said it well, we all have our own Everest.

What are some of these lessons that you've learned through your experiences that people can start to kind of apply to themselves as they're contemplating this idea? Right. What are some of the takeaways you've had so far?

Matt Dawson: Yeah, I think, I think probably the largest takeaway is understanding, you know, when, when to fight and when to surrender is my, you know, my just general mentality, my entire life has been to fight and in my, my approach to things was, I will just, I'll continue to run into whatever's in front of me.

Whether it's a person or a thing or whatever, you know, a goal, whatever. And I'll just keep running into it and run [00:28:00] into it and run into it until one of us breaks and it won't be me is I can, I can outlast anything that stands in front of me and that's, you know, like working banking for 80 to a hundred hours a week for years or, or, you know, whatever it is.

And it was just, I always fought everything. And you, if you, it, there, there are certainly effective elements to that, but if you do it over and over and over again, you become this one dimensional creature, which I did unknowingly. And then you also just get worn down is you do that stuff for literally decades and it just, it wears you down physically, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually.

And, you know, through, through, you know, forming DawnSweep foundation, you know, setting all the records and all doing all this kind of stuff. Is I came to understand that the greatest sense of strength that I was able to find actually came in surrender, which is you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't think of, you think of, Oh, you got to be this big, tough guy or tough woman and go out and, you know, do this and that.

But I'm telling you, it takes more strength to [00:29:00] sit back and to surrender in a positive, proactive way. And to, and to face your challenges and your fears and hesitations and trepidations and, and to feel them fully and to release them that it does to fight against them and to fight against these things on a daily basis and learning how to, to properly, you know, view surrender and, and that is surrender is not just, you know, giving up and going along, you know, like the traditional connotation of surrender is.

But it's, it's, um, figuring out how, how to just be fully engaged with yourself, how to feel everything that you need to feel, then how to use that in a productive way in your life. It's, it's, it's been by far the single greatest message in the lesson that I've learned so far.

D Brent Dowlen: I'm glad you, you kind of clarified.

Cause I I'm, I'm with you right there. I'm that guy who I will run into that wall over and over until one of us is dead. That's how it's going to end. Right. I don't have. People talk about the fight or flight response. I found out fairly early in my [00:30:00] life. I don't have a flight response, even when I should.

Uh, and so I will beat myself to death over it. So I'm glad you clarified because the idea of surrender, that just

Matt Dawson: exactly. Now that's the thing is I can look, I can see it in your face. And I thought the same thing too. And I started thinking about it. It's like, like you hear surrender and you think about, you know, world war one, world war two, like we are, like you think about this traditional connotation of it, but really what it is, is.

It's, you know, when, when you, when you're sitting there facing a challenger or a fear, right? And you're just running into it continuously is you can only deal with that in a certain element for a certain period of time, but when you surrender, you're not surrendering to it, you're surrendering into it, which means that you, you're allowing your fears and hesitations and trepidations to move into you, but yet you remain unmoved.

So you don't try to avoid them in any way. You feel, you feel them to their absolute. Fullest extent. But the most important part of it is you [00:31:00] allow yourself to release them as well. And you don't, you don't give them a place to take root within you. And in the way that you apply that into your life is that the whole purpose of surrender is not to just sit in pain because that's an element of it, but that's not the purpose of it.

The purpose is to find new and better ways of fulfilling your needs because it, it, you know, where you and I are similar is if you're always just running headlong into that wall. It's like, if you always do what you've always done, you always get what you've always got. You know, you can't just keep doing the same thing over and over.

But by allowing them to move through you, by, by finding new ways to, to meet and fulfill your needs, you could become that, that person that you're looking to become. You can have that impact you're looking to have. And it's, it's the entire reason that we're all here is to grow and to use that growth to elevate others.

And we can't grow effectively if we keep doing the same things all the time. You know, and, and again, that's where the surrender comes in as well, but it's just, it's critical to understand that surrender is not simply [00:32:00] given in and going along and giving up and go off the flow. It's a much more active, you know, process, you know, than that.

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah. You had me worried for a minute. That's

Matt Dawson: I can see your face. I get it. That

D Brent Dowlen: uncomfortable is like, Ooh, wait, wait, we don't talk about feels.

Matt Dawson: Is that

D Brent Dowlen: That's, uh, that's uncomfortable. I'm getting better about talking about Phil's. I have two daughters. I have a 10 year old and a 12 year old. And so I'm having to grow a little bit and get a little more comfortable with that.

Right. But that's that area. We don't like to talk about as men. It's like, wait, I have to, I have to acknowledge and actually not just stuff it down there. Uh, that's very, I'm

Matt Dawson: the best is I'm like, I could bury that deep and I'll deal with that in 10 years, you know, it's just, it's just, it's not how it works and look, it's been said a lot of times is that We, we believe that we're these conscious beings that were probably 90 percent conscious with a small layer of subconscious.

And, you know, I've [00:33:00] definitively come to understand that it's the exact opposite, that we're probably 5 percent conscious and 95 percent subconscious. So you're going to deal with it in some way, shape or form, whether you want to or not, or whether you understand that you are or not. So you might as well try to get out in front of that stuff.

Cause it's, it's, it's coming up, you know, whether, whether you want it to or not.

D Brent Dowlen: Dustin, I want to switch gears a little bit. I saw something, uh, on your website and as I was getting ready for the show about the concept of duty and capacity. And to me, we, we've been talking about getting more physical and facing some of those challenges are Everest.

Whether that's those conversations are actually, you know, physical. We've talked about strength and surrender. Now that adds capacity to what you're capable of. How this duty come into that?

Matt Dawson: Yeah, it's, [00:34:00] I think far too often in this day is we're focused on capacity. It's about, you know, how can I do more? Uh, you know, how can I, you know, be more and, and all these like hacks and tips and tricks and, you know, all this kind of stuff.

And it's, you know, capacity is about ourselves, but you know, our lives are about more than ourselves. At least they should be. And that's where the concept of duty comes in is because. The way that I look at it is every single thing that we do in this world, good or bad, right or wrong, public or private, whether I'm doing it on the street corner and whether or whether I'm doing it at home behind a locked door, is it's going to eventually impact everyone else in some way because it, it makes me who I am and you can't hide who you are as much as we want to believe we can, we can.

So that's where duty comes in is duty is the role that we play in the lives of others. And our, and to make our life is to understand that it's not just about building our capacity, but it's about providing and [00:35:00] offering that capacity to the world. And that's where that sense of duty comes in. And there's really, I think, an equal amount of weight that should be put on those.

Because a lot of times, people get focused too much on the duty, not as much on the capacity or vice versa. But it's really that transition point from self centered to service centered. And that's where we transitioned from capacity, you know, into duty.

D Brent Dowlen: Excellent. Okay. So that actually segues where I want to take this conversation next.

So good job. Yay. Look at us. We're seeing up, man. You got this guys. We've been talking about those, those Everest moments, those challenges we need to put in our lives to make it stronger and how part of that strength comes in surrender, we, we need to actually experience every piece of our life, the emotions, the feelings, not just the physical.

Now Dawson has, I don't want to [00:36:00] say it's a pillar he stands on, but that, that's how I read it when I was researching the show that we need to earn our lives. Right. Uh, I saw a quote, earn our, earn your life, give your life, live your life. Something to that effect. Exactly. I probably misquoted that entirely.

And so I really want to dive into that because we talked about purpose a little earlier and Where this is building us up, right? Cause I think challenging those Everest moments, pushing ourselves out of that comfort zone and then moving into surrender, I think this is leading that direction and that's the guys I honestly like I'm, I'm making this up as I go.

Cause I, I really like I'm seeing the connection. So hopefully you guys are seeing the connection. So let's dive into earn, give, live your life.

Matt Dawson: No, you, you, you said that well, and we came up with earn, give, live as a way to. You know, how can we really [00:37:00] kind of scale down or pare down our messaging and what we're doing as an organization and what I'm doing, you know, as an individual to the most basic elements of, of the message.

And that's where we came up with, with earn, give, live, or it's earn, give, live your life, which, you know, along with strength and surrender are really the two biggest pillars for, for Dawson's Peak Foundation, where, you know, earn your life. Is what we're talking about is, is about building that capacity.

It's about doing all the, all that personal work that you need to do, whether it's, you know, the meditation, you know, the, the journaling, the, the being physical, the, just all the, all the root work that, that we need to do on an individual daily basis, give your life is really that transition, as we mentioned just a second ago, your excellent transition, by the way, from capacity into duty, so give your life is simply making your life about more than yourself.

And to understand that, that we all have a role to play in the lives of others. And then lastly, living your life is really a combination of [00:38:00] earning and giving. It's that, it's that practical daily, you know, application of it. And it's just living the most fulfilled life that you possibly can, you know, for yourself, but understand that everything you do is going to impact everybody else.

And to, to kind of, to contribute as much as you can, as fully as you can on a daily basis. And the interesting, interesting thing about EGL is, is it's not necessarily just a linear progression. You don't go from one to the other is that you can kind of go back and forth between them, all of them, depending on where you are in life at what stage you are.

Cause there's certainly, there are times when I need to sit down and do more deep reflective personal work. Then once I kind of have that, I'm in a better place personally. I can take that and apply that to the things that I'm doing on an exterior base, on a, uh, in an exterior element, you know, whether it be climbing or, or speaking or, or riding or whatever.

And then there, there are times when it's about living the life. There are times when it's about giving the life. So it's just really kind of a, you're in flow between all of [00:39:00] it, you know, when you really, you know, uh, living it on, on an effective basis.

D Brent Dowlen: Dawson, what's, what's the result when you start to approach things in this manner?

Right. Because everybody, everybody, whether they want to admit it or not, I like calling it selfish. Everybody is focused on what something does for them. So what is the end result? If you start approaching life, moving in this direction with this perspective, what is the end result? What do you get back from that?

How does that impact your life?

Matt Dawson: What, what I found is for the first time in my life, and I'm 45 years old, is to have a sense of, of greater peace. Is that, you know, like we talked about is, is I spent decades fighting everything and letting either consciously or subconsciously allowing fear to rule my life and to be motivated by fear and by what I, by what [00:40:00] I don't want rather than what I do want.

So it helps with that transition of, of now, instead of living a life based on what you're trying to avoid is you're living a life based on what you want. And you don't feel that you don't have to have that internal daily struggle. Where everything doesn't have to be hard. Everything doesn't have to feel like a chore.

Is you get to a place where you feel like you're in, you're in true flow. Not only with yourself, but in the greater sense of the world. And, you know, you feel like you're a piece of something. Because I think, you know, far too often, especially, I keep saying this, but especially today, with the proliferation of technology and social media, is we're more connected than we've ever been, but I think we're more isolated than we've ever been.

And this really just helps you to feel truly reconnected with everyone else and everything else kind of in that flow. And it just, it helps you to just be able to breathe, just to sit back and to actually take a deep breath and open your chest up and open your body up and to sit back and [00:41:00] just, it's just a tremendous feeling of peace and connection.

D Brent Dowlen: Sorry, I'm, I'm, I'm soaking that in. It's just,

There's so much value in that. Um, yeah, I, I, I'm, so I'm in my studio. I'll be in here probably 12 to 14 hours a day. Like I live as much as I love doing this. I live in my studio. Um, I'm here 12 hours a day to 14 hours a day, usually six to seven days a week. Uh, I have to intentionally get really intentional about spending time with my wife and my kids.

And And making sure I'm doing those things because it's just easy for me to stay in here, heads down the concept of having peace from it and being able to breathe deeply. When I, when I was a kid, my first job was on a ranch. I was, I was a ranch hand in Wyoming on a functional ranch and I have [00:42:00] never slept better in my life than I did in those years because at the end of every day those animals were alive because I did my job.

I was fulfilling a purpose. Physically being involved, physically engaging with the world and watching the impact. And I slept like a baby. And I, I think we under, we undervalue that in a world where we prioritize busyness. So just, just this idea of living in alignment and coming into just this piece because you are living the way you're meant to live is crazy.

Matt Dawson: Look, I think you said that very well. And I think that's an excellent example of you understood that, that your life at that point was not just about you. Like you said it very well is that the reason those animals were alive Was because of what you because of what you were doing and that that's still true on a daily basis You know is is, you [00:43:00] know, you're still doing that for your family, you know in a certain degree And we're all doing this for you know for others, you know in a certain degree But but that's just a great example of you had a much more direct And immediate understanding of the impact you were having on others.

You know, you know, I think that that that's a that's a wonderful You know way of looking at it

D Brent Dowlen: That that clarity was, I mean, yeah, that that clarity was so amazing and that's why I think I enjoyed it is because I could like you could see you miss a step out there. There are nights I I stood guard with a rifle because we had, you know, predators or, you know, waited out in the snow to pull a calf in the middle of a blizzard.

Literally, not not like the, you know, your grandfather walked uphill 5 miles in the snow each way kind of thing. Dawson, if this is resonating for people, right? One of the things that I have found over and over again with a lot of people is there's so much information out there. There's right. People freeze on paralysis.

If this message is resonating people and really dialing in for them and they're going, wow, like you feel your chest going, [00:44:00] wow. It's like you can actually feel your chest expand as you play with this idea in your head. Give us a starting point. Give us like the first three steps. Give us a starting point because I, that's the hardest part for everybody is just getting started.

So can you give us three steps to start on the journey?

Matt Dawson: Yeah, it is, is, you know, I think everybody's going to be a little bit different, but the biggest thing is, first of all, is just do is do something. Is it, I think you said it very well, is that there's this paralysis by analysis. And look, I'm very guilty of that is I'm a very analytical person.

And I can, if you, yeah, is I can come up with a thousand ways to look at anything and it can literally drive me crazy at points and you're like, Oh, what's the best way to do this or the best way to do this or the best way to do this. And you can't, you can't, you can kind of get stuck in that feedback loop.

But the biggest thing is, is just, is to do something number one. And I don't care if it, if it turns out to be right or wrong, but just put some action into place, into play. Uh, secondly, it's a [00:45:00] start with smaller steps is, you know, like we've talked about is, is don't go out and, and have, you know, Everest as your first objective is that might work for some people, you know, it worked, it worked in my case, but it's, it's, you know, most people is, is that's not going to work for is start off with, with smaller steps.

And then I think lastly is focus on what you want rather than what you don't want is far too often. Our lives are dominated by I'm going to do X, Y and Z because I don't want a B and C. It's like, you know, I don't want to be overweight. So I'm going to exercise or I don't want this. I would do this.

Rather you can flip it and to say, Hey, I want to be the most productive, you know, uh, you know, version of myself, my family. So I'm going to do this. So it's focused on, on the positive elements of it and not the negative elements of it, because we're either motivated by what we want or we're motivated by avoiding what we don't want.

And for, for doing it for so [00:46:00] long, I can tell you that motivation through avoidance is, although it can be productive at times, it can get very toxic. So motivate yourself by, by what you do want, you know, take small steps to get started and then just do something. I think are probably the three easiest and best first steps for most people.

D Brent Dowlen: And Dawson, I want to move for a second over one of the, one of my biggest frustrations as a podcaster is I get a chance to introduce some of you guys to my audience for maybe the first time, but that's generally all I get is, you know, I, I, I, Have not yet moved to the point where I can get away with doing four hour interviews.

Uh, I'd love to, cause I absolutely could do those, but, um, so it was important for me that my audience is able to track with you if this is connecting with them. So tell us about Dawson's peak foundation and what the work you're doing there [00:47:00] first.

Matt Dawson: Yeah, it's, so Dawson's Peak Foundation is a 501c3 that I started back in, uh, 2000, late 2017, 2018 with a very good friend of mine, uh, Jay Jablonski, who's essentially my brother.

And, you know, our mission is to inspire the discovery and pursuit of individual purpose. And it's really the, the umbrella under which we put all these physical expeditions that I've been doing. They're all part of our, of our first project called Project 7 for Soldiers, where I was attempting to set seven world records.

Uh, you know, ended up setting six of them, which, you know, not a terrible start, but, uh, more importantly is, you know, to get people to, to live lives with greater sense of purpose, you have to be of service to others, but to really kind of put our money where our mouth was, is that we teamed up with two of the nation's highest rated veteran charities on this project.

So Gary Sinise Foundation, Hope for the Warriors, where they've received 100 percent of the net proceeds that we've raised so far, you know, during the project. So I haven't made a nickel, the [00:48:00] organization hasn't made a nickel. And it's just, it's been a wonderful experience, but that's kind of the, the umbrella under which we're doing all these things

D Brent Dowlen: now, guys, if this is really resonating, Dawson wrote a book, is it out yet?

Matt Dawson: It's coming out, uh, October 22nd, which I'm, I'm excited about strength

D Brent Dowlen: and surrenders, correct?

Matt Dawson: That's it. Strength and surrender,

D Brent Dowlen: strength and surrender. So if this is really deeply resonating with you, Hey, you're going to be able to find Dawson on other platforms. If I'm sure, because I doubt. When a man sets six world records, you, you tend to find him.

It's, you know, it's because I'm, I'm not trying for those records. Like, you know, mine might be how many drinks I can do in an hour or something. Like I'm not going after the seven peaks. So, uh, but I'm sure you're going to find lots of platforms. But if you want to go deeper with Dawson, if you really want to gain some insights, because I can only imagine.

Some of the [00:49:00] insights in wisdom that has become clear to you in pushing yourself to these extremes, all those hours rolling across the ocean are climbing peaks are hiking across the Mojave. And if you want is want to get deeper in that, you need to check out his book, strength and surrender that's coming out.

Is that going to be available on Amazon?

Matt Dawson: Yeah. I want to start on Amazon and then, you know, after a little while, it'll be available, you know, kind of in bookstores and all that kind of stuff.

D Brent Dowlen: And of course we'll have all of Matt's links so you can, cause I'm sure there's gonna be a link off the website, but we'll have all of Matt's links so you can find him.

There I go calling you Matt again. See, I didn't correct it on my sheet. That's the problem. Now guys, I gave you a trivia at the beginning of this. I had to look it up myself. Uh, how long did it take? Dawson, his partner to row the 3084 miles across the ocean. I had to look at that twice. 'cause you had nautical miles on there, which are apparently [00:50:00] longer than regular miles.

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Dawson: There's nautical miles and statute miles. Yeah.

D Brent Dowlen: Do you remember how long it took you?

Matt Dawson: Uh, it took me 53 days. Three hours and 30 minutes.

D Brent Dowlen: Okay guys, so there's the answer. If you were guessing right, there were four options, 53 hour, days, and a chunk. I'm not gonna nickel and dime the hours and minutes out.

Uh, for the record, that matters for all of us who can't even imagine getting in a boat and trying to cross the Atlantic ocean. I saw pictures on your, you guys got to check out his Instagram. Like I saw pictures. It's no, just, just no, I cannot believe I was reading about the trip on your website and no, no, I'm good.

Matt Dawson: Well, it's funny. It's one of those trips is that came and I should know this, but I always blank on it. I think that came. Eight, eight or nine expeditions into the project where, you know, all the things that we talked about is, is I was trying to do 'em all in a single year, you know, in 12 months. So, which makes it [00:51:00] even, you know, a little bit more difficult with the, with the, uh, condensed schedule.

But my plan was if I, I was just thinking if I can just get to the row and have been successful, then I'll just figure it out. I mean, I, I think I spent a total of 45 minutes preparing for it. Like I had no clue what I was doing. Just, just, if I could just get there, I'll find some way of making it happen is I'll just put my head down and I'll row until the boat sinks or until we hit land one of the two.

And, and luckily we got there, we were successful. Then we got in the boat and just literally rowed, you know, 53 days till we hit land. And that was, that was it, man. But it was, it was a heck of a journey.

D Brent Dowlen: No guys, I do not recommend just jumping a boat and trying to row across the ocean. Dawson and his crew did definitely put together some work.

I heard you had some problems with the water system. For clean water, which added to that.

Matt Dawson: Yeah, it was

D Brent Dowlen: prepared.

Matt Dawson: Yeah. It was maybe like a week into it. Something like that is that we had a, an automatic water maker on board where we [00:52:00] desalinate the ocean water and we would drink and we could get, I forget, it's like about eight liters, you know, something like that in, in two minutes or five minutes or, you know, whatever.

And in one day, about a weekend, it just pooped out and we had no water whatsoever. And the backup was a hand pump that was strapped to a big board that you put over your lap. And we dragged two hoses behind the boat. So what took us five minutes would now take us literally three hours to get the water that we needed.

So that means we were each row in 12 hours a day and you can't stop that. So now it's like whenever we both had a break. We're sitting there pumping this thing like literally a hand pump back and forth. I mean, this, it looks kinda like a bi, like, kinda like a weird bicycle pump for three hours. And we did that for, for nearly, you know, for, well, you can read the book and, you know, see how long we did it.

We, we did that for a while and finally we figured out that there was [00:53:00] about a, uh, about a $3 part that, that had busted on us. And luckily we had a replacement. And could get that fixed. But man, it, it went, it made a difficult experience, just damn near miserable. Like it was, it was bad. Wow.

D Brent Dowlen: And so those stories are going to be in the book as well.

Matt Dawson: Yeah. Listen, everything's in there is that, uh, just, you know, just quickly on that is, you know, this is my first book and I've just spent literally a year putting this thing together. And it's not just about, Hey, you know, I, I climbed a mountain. It was this cold and it was this high and the wind was blowing this hard.

And cause all that stuff's been said a million times and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. But I wanted to really, to create a different experience, you know, for people. So in that, it's just, it's as raw and honest as I can be. There's, there's art that was created just, you know, just for it. Uh, that, that you like this real kind of inky contemporary, you know, emotional art, uh, my personal journals are in there.

So you can see like exactly what I was saying, which I never planned on sharing those with anybody, but they're [00:54:00] in there and it just, you know, all about the, you know, my, my personal transformation, my personal journey, all the stats and figures and statistics, but you know, just, you know, lessons that we could all apply.

My personal meditations I use on a daily basis. And then finally a section about to the point you asked, which was a very good one earlier about, you know, how can we apply this to our lives to really put these things into institute, these things are into actionable items. You know, those sections are in there as well.

So I really wanted to create a real one off experience. And approaches from a different way that there really has been done before in this space. And, you know, hopefully we've done that.

D Brent Dowlen: I look forward to reading it. It will come my way. I love, like, I, I haven't read the book yet, but I love to go back.

Like after I get to do this with people and talk to people, I'm like, man, I want to read the book now. Cause, cause we, we hedged into this much of the story guys, Dawson and I, I've scratched the surface of what is [00:55:00] to come. And I get more than you guys do. Cause I do the research for the show, but I'm, I'm excited for this book to come out.

I think it's going to be really great. Dawson. If our audience heard nothing else today, what is, what is the one thing you want them to take away? It doesn't have to even revolve around the show, right? Use the platform. You're talking to 74 percent men or 76 percent men and some women. What do you want people to hear today?

Matt Dawson: I want people to understand that, that there is a different way. Is that there, there is a way that we can live our lives to gain a sense of peace that we're all looking for. And that that's done through connecting with ourselves and making our lives about more than ourselves. But also it's about setting a standard and, and hard work is that we can't allow ourselves to.

You know, to kind of act based on how we [00:56:00] feel and we need to take our lives more seriously. And I think especially today is that we're, we're, we're kind of getting distracted and, and we don't, we don't have that level of seriousness and resolve that we're meant to have. So it's, it's gaining a greater sense of peace, but with the understanding about the seriousness and revolve or resolve that are required.

Then applying that to, to be of service to others is I think the reason that we're here and, and, um, you know, to kind of keep that in the forefront of our minds as we're going through our, our lives.

D Brent Dowlen: Guys, I can't top that. So for Dawson and myself, thanks for hanging out with us today. Be better tomorrow because what you do today, and we'll see you on the next one.

David McCarter: This has been the fellow woman podcast. You're home to everything man, husband, and love. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show. Head over to www. thefallibleman. com for more content and get your infallible [00:57:00] manager.