Mastering Marriage The Five Essential Skills Every Man Needs

Mastering Marriage The Five Essential Skills Every Man Needs

Is your marriage worth 75 minutes? Be honest with yourself. Is your marriage worth 75 minutes of your time? If the answer is yes, then this episode is for you. Today on the Fallen Woman podcast, I have author and marriage counselor, Kelly Dupee, joining us with 36 years of his own marriage experience, plus all those years of counseling to help us learn how to be married, because I was never taught to be married, at least not in school.

Like I wasn't. So maybe he's onto something here. We're not taught to be married. He's also going to share with us five skills to learn for a healthy relationship. Now, if you want to skip to the meat of the show and get past the, get to know you segment, there's timestamps in the description, whatever platform you're on.

So you can skip ahead. Or if you just want to get to know Kelly, watch the full thing. Kelly wanted to share something really special with you. And then we'll get started,

Kelly Dupee: learn how to be married. Don't try to figure this out on your own. Take the time [00:01:00] to learn how to do it right and how to do it successfully.

And it will save you, um, tons emotionally, financially, uh, in all ways, you know, uh, save yourself the trouble, learn how to be married.

David Dowlen: Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential growing to the men we dream of becoming while taking care of our responsibilities, working, living, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves.

Well, that's the big question. And in this podcast, we'll help you with those answers and more. My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man podcast. Welcome to the Fallible Man podcast. You're home for all things, man, husband, father, big shout out to Fallible Nation. That's what I call our longtime listeners and our warm welcome to our first time listeners.

Hey, there's a lot out there competing for your time. We know it. And from the bottom of our hearts, thanks for giving us a chance. We really appreciate it. Be sure and connect with me at the Fallible Man on most social media platforms. I'm particularly active on Instagram. Let me know [00:02:00] what you thought of the show.

If you enjoyed it, what I could do better. And Hey, if you really enjoyed it, share it with a friend or leave us through you on Apple podcasts. That helps us reach more people. My name is Brent. Today, my special guest is pastor, coach, and author, Kelly DePay. Kelly, welcome to the Foulable Man Podcast. Hey Brent, how you doing?

I'm excited, man. I'm excited. The caffeine's starting to flow. We're good. Awesome. Now, Kelly, I like to start things pretty light, so how are your trivia skills?

Kelly Dupee: Trivia skills. Oh, it depends on the topic, but I think I'm pretty good at that.

David Dowlen: Okay. That's good. History is my,

Kelly Dupee: history would be my, my go to. If we got any history questions, go for it.

David Dowlen: Uh, close. So which of these is the most visited attraction in the world? Is it A, the Eiffel Tower, B, the Statue of Liberty, C, the Forbidden City, or D, the Colosseum?

Kelly Dupee: Ooh, and I love to travel as well. So a large part of my ministry at the church was leading [00:03:00] mission teams. Been to Paris several times. I'm going to, I'm going to go with the Eiffel tower.

That's my favorite.

David Dowlen: All right, guys, you know, the rules don't cheat. Don't look it up, make your guess. And if you're driving, please don't write it down. I know a lot of you listen to this in the car. We'll come back to that later. I Kelly, I don't do huge introductions because no one cares. Accolades, accolades, accolades, right?

In this moment today in your life, who is Kelly to pay in your own words?

Kelly Dupee: Kelly Dupee is a husband, a follower of Jesus Christ, um, a dad, a grandpa, uh, and a marriage coach. Um, the Lord has kind of shifted me out of my position on staff at a church for over 35 years. And I'm focusing now on helping couples with their marriages.

and just loving it. Um, the conversations I have, the, the, it's not counseling. I call it coaching. Uh, it's, it's all about learning skills and applying skills [00:04:00] and, um, then helping couples reconnect, solve their problems, get back on track. And I'm just, uh, really enjoying what the Lord's doing right now through, um, Yeah, through this aspect of ministry.

So, um, that's who I am. Uh, my first relationship, like I said, is with the Lord. And then after that, it's my wife, my kids, and then anybody else that I can help, uh, including the West Covina Police Department. I'm in, uh, the Los Angeles area, and I serve as the chaplain. West Covina is a suburb, uh, town about 20 miles or less, maybe 15 miles east.

East of LA and, uh, love being a part of that department and helping, uh, yeah, those who wear the badge and, uh, serve our community with bravery and integrity. So I am, um, uh, very excited to be here today.

David Dowlen: I love that, Kelly. You're providing tremendous service. I have several friends who are in law enforcement.

So, thank you [00:05:00] for continuing the service there. Uh, those, those brave men and women need, need a shoulder to lean into, so thank you for that. Kelly, what is your best dad joke?

Kelly Dupee: Oh, gosh. You know, my wife has told me a long time ago, don't go, don't tell jokes. And so, um, I, I'm just not that kind of guy. I, I am not really, okay.

I don't know. I guess it's a dad joke. All right, here, here's one for you. What did Jesus say to the disciples? What was the first thing? I'm sorry that Jesus said to the disciples at the last supper, Hey, everybody get on this side of the table for the picture. I

David Dowlen: like it coming from a church background. I like it.

Cause

Kelly Dupee: there you go. There you go. That's, that's one off the top of my head.

David Dowlen: That [00:06:00] painting always cracked me up. It's like, yeah, I'm sure that's what dinner looked like.

Kelly Dupee: Yes, exactly. Biggest pet peeve. Oh, yeah.

It bugs me when people ask a question and, and preface it by saying, can I ask you a question? I'm like, just ask the question. You don't need my permission. You know, it's like, can I ask you a question? Uh, no, I'm, I'm busy. Leave me alone. Of course. Ask me a question, but you don't need to ask me a question.

If you can ask me a question.

David Dowlen: You know, I totally get that. So I will try and do better than that today. Batman or Superman? Batman.

Kelly Dupee: Batman you want to know why? Yeah, I do. He doesn't have any superpowers He just has a lot of money and and buys or makes really cool stuff that allows him to do the job I like it [00:07:00] Yeah, that's the

David Dowlen: story.

I've never been a Superman fan. That's my best friend and I are like, you know button heads He's a Superman guy. I'm like People everybody's got their opinion, but I found every guy has an opinion on that like it's it's amazing All dads can talk about being dads All guys that managed to run like it's a, it's a hard line in the sand.

Kelly Dupee: Oh yeah. There you go. It's almost like Apple or Android. Everybody's got an opinion.

David Dowlen: Oh yeah. Yeah. I avoid that cause I'm a tech guy. I'm on both sides of that line. So I just avoid that argument.

Kelly Dupee: There you go.

David Dowlen: What purchase of a hundred dollars or less have you made in the last year that's had the most significant impact on your life?

Kelly Dupee: Can we come back to that one? I am drawing a blank ,

David Dowlen: like I told you before the show, there's no wrong answer, so you can sit on that one. Just let, let me, lemme

Kelly Dupee: me sit on that. I'm trying to remember what have I bought for a hundred dollars or less that has made an [00:08:00] impact?

David Dowlen: Um, hey, I've got people who bought a pair of shorts for $70 that said to change their lives and I went.

You paid 70 for shorts.

Kelly Dupee: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's fine. Um, I, I, one thing I bought that I, that I remember thinking, Wow, this is going to really help me. Um. I signed up for a program, uh, one of these guys online that help you do things. And, um, you know, in terms of your, um, your business or in my case, my, my coaching ministry, and it was a workshop on how to produce, use AI to produce a workbook and it was 25.

And I was thinking, wow, this is going to help me create this workbook. To go with my book, and I think it's really going to help a lot of people. This was a great 25 bucks. So that was kind of the first thing that popped in my mind. I was trying to think of something that I did for my wife. But most of that was over 25.

I mean, a hundred dollars. So

David Dowlen: these days that question is getting much [00:09:00] harder, right? With the economy. Yep. If you could go back and give your 18 year old self one piece of advice, what would it be?

Kelly Dupee: Follow your heart. Follow what God's telling you to do and, uh, take, feel free to take more risks.

David Dowlen: All right. If I were to sit down at your dinner table with your family, what is the funny story that they would inevitably tell about you to embarrass you?

Kelly Dupee: Oh man. These are great questions. Funny story that they would tell to embarrass me. Oh God. I mean, I know lots of funny stories about them, but boy, what would they say about me?

Wow, you know, once again, I'm drawing a blank here, let's keep talking, maybe something will come up. I'm sorry. I'm not [00:10:00] trying to be defensive, but I am. I'm like, oh, gee,

David Dowlen: huh? I told you the first part of my show is a little different. That's right. We like to poke around a little bit. Check under the hood.

Okay. I got one.

Kelly Dupee: I got one. I just needed a moment. All right. So remember the time dad? When we threw a surprise birthday party for you. And, um, they, we had all these people at our house and, um, you know, was totally not expecting it. It was like a week or two after my birthday. I think it's, I think it's when I turned 50 I don't know, somewhere in that range there.

But anyways, I came walking in the door, the lights were all off, which is, you know, we usually leave the lights off when I'm away. Um, my wife and I came walking into the garage and all of a sudden the lights go on and all these people yell, happy birthday. And I freaked out. I'm like, I didn't yell and scream, [00:11:00] but I was just like, I don't know.

It was panic mode or something and everybody laughed and I laughed. And yeah, so I kind of remember that. So they might tell that story. Hey dad, remember the time.

David Dowlen: It's the great thing about kids, right? They keep us honest.

Kelly Dupee: Oh, absolutely. And humble.

David Dowlen: My kids like to tell stories on me. So I get it. Great

Kelly Dupee: question.

David Dowlen: What is one thing everybody should absolutely know about you before we dig into today's show?

Kelly Dupee: I think the thing I asked a bunch of friends of mine, some guys in my, in my men's group, I said, if there's one word that would describe me, what would it be? And it was the word compassion. And I was really honored by that.

And so, um, everything I talk about with people is because I care and I want to help guys. I want to help couples. Um, You know, want to help, uh, you know, uh, ladies as well. Mostly it's guys and couples that come to me for assistance and coaching [00:12:00] and, and just, you know, Hey, what do you think Kelly about this or that?

And it really is, um, an expression of, I think, you know, God's care for them. And I just try to be an instrument of the Lord to bring God's love and compassion to as many people as I can. So, yeah, I think that might be a good thing to start with. Awesome

David Dowlen: guys. We've been getting to know Kelly just a little bit, see who he is, check under the hood, you know, see what makes him tick.

And the next part of the show, we're going to dive into marriage. Now, whether you are a faith based individual or not, that's irrelevant for this conversation because Kelly has some great insights and a lot of experience and not only his own marriage, but in coaching other people in their marriages, marriage, uh, whether you think your marriage is in great shape or.

You know, you've got enough experience under the hood. You need to keep working on it or you feel like it's not. I promise there's something for you in this episode that will help you out. So be sure and stay tuned in for this. [00:13:00] Now, Kelly, you've been married for 36 years, heading towards 37. Obviously, you've got some time in the game.

So you're not speaking from this just academic level. You've done marriage counseling as a pastor. What possessed you to write a book?

Kelly Dupee: Well, about 10 years ago, my son, uh, came to us, my wife and I, and said, Hey, um, my girlfriend and I, we were engaged and we want to get married. And, um, the next day, just in my prayer time, every morning, I always try to spend some time talking to God and listening.

And, um, I really, you know, just had the idea. I think it was from the Lord. Um, you know, just start writing down all of your advice. What have you learned over the years? And I've, you know, through the church, uh, where I've pastored have done several marriage programs and, and, uh, actually got a federal grant to teach a program to the, our community.

And so, you know, learned a lot of stuff, of course, being married. And so I just [00:14:00] started, you know, I made a simple outline and then, you know, every morning we'll just get on my computer and just start, you know, typing. And so, um, it really turned into something bigger than I ever thought it would. I was amazed at how much I had to say.

When I actually stopped and started thinking about it. Um, and so one of my gifts is as a teacher. So that's kind of the thing that I came at it and it was really picturing a brand new, um, couple, you know, or a young couple engaged just like my son and his fiance at the time and was writing to that audience.

So this is kind of a manual on how to be married. So, um, it's been helpful for couples that have been married for a long time, but it's definitely been helpful for couples just starting out.

David Dowlen: Hi guys. Oh,

Kelly Dupee: sorry.

David Dowlen: I forgot to turn off the stove. We're talking about Kelly's book, Turn It Up. Uh, you will [00:15:00] find this in my library, of course, forever.

It would links to Amazon. Um, you can find on Amazon your own, but you just go to the library on my website and find that as well. Uh, and, uh, Now, Kelly, as I understand it, reading the book, you believe that one of the things that is causing problems with, we'll say marriage statistics, right? Is that people just kind of go into marriage, but they're not to be married and that people should be taught how to be married.

Can we talk about that for a minute?

Kelly Dupee: Absolutely. Um, learning how to be married is a, um, I think a critical component of what's missing today. A lot of, you know, couples, it's like, Oh, we love each other. Everything's going to be great. And, and then it's not great. I mean, it's music great for a year or so, you know, so, so newly married couples.

Yeah. It's the honeymoon phase is what they call it. And then after that, the reality [00:16:00] sits, sets in and the stuff that, um, you know, you start noticing the things that bug you. About the person you just married and a lot of couples, myself included, you know, you have doubts. Oh my goodness. What did I do? Did I just make the biggest mistake of my life?

And a lot of couples usually in that year one through five, call it quits. They don't last till you're five. You're seven is another time. But that's because usually that's when the kids start showing up and then all of the problems and issues that are already there now become amplified because of the pressure of having, you know, the little babies to take care of.

And so, um, anyways, a lot of couples, they just don't get through that. And I think it's because they don't know how. So that's been kind of my heart behind this is let me teach you how I've learned how and i've learned it the hard way and after the book by the way was written Um, my wife and I went through [00:17:00] Um, probably the roughest Patch of our entire lives and certainly our entire marriage In that we almost didn't make it and I think god was just kind of saying, okay Well, you want to teach about marriage?

You want to be an example of working through hard stuff? You Yeah, it's your turn to go through some tests and, and I don't believe God causes the tests, but, and, and that's a whole nother discussion. But he uses those tests and trials that we go through to teach us lessons. And so a lot of what I learned in that period, even after the book was written, is definitely what I'm using today to help couples, um, get through those tough times.

And we got some help. And we were able to work through all of that. And like I say, you know, coming up on, um, 37 years of marriage and, um, more in love now than ever. And, uh, but yeah, there was a time when we got really tested as well, but we learned what to do to get through that. So yes, [00:18:00]

David Dowlen: my wife and I are coming up on 23 years this coming weekend.

Uh,

Kelly Dupee: Oh, this weekend. Congratulations.

David Dowlen: For all of you who are listening, that's a point of reference from when I'm recording this, not from when it's going to air. So if you're hearing this, we're already past that. Yeah. My wife and I are coming up on this this coming weekend, our 23rd anniversary, and I'm looking forward to another 23 years or more, whatever God gives us.

But you know, there's definitely been those, right. Those times in marriage. I remember those, that first year or two was just like, I call it the puppy dog love phase, like there, there is no wrong. And then like life happens and you realize. Oh, maybe they're not perfect. I was terrified. Cause like, I wouldn't have stayed married to me for 23 years.

I'm a pain. So the fact that my wife is, you know, stuck with me through good and bad for 23 years, I feel very blessed in that. But there were definitely some times it was like, Oh [00:19:00] man. And that getting past that honeymoon phase, you're just Oh, you, you snore or, Oh, it's not cute. That little noise you make when you brush your teeth.

Right. All those little nuances that in that first year, it's like, Oh, that's so cute. By year three, you're like, I'm going to strangle you. It's

Kelly Dupee: yes. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

David Dowlen: Actually made a statement early in the book that kind of took me by surprise. Hmm, you stated most relationships in painfully are stay together while being unhappy, uh, which just blew my mind.

Most, most people who Are into in supporting marriage in that area in their life or working in that industry Are generally pulling for the good stuff. So I liked it because it was like, wait, this guy may have a practical approach to this, no, no blinders. Can you explain that statement a little bit?

Kelly Dupee: Yeah.

And, and maybe I [00:20:00] overstated it, or maybe you're misquoting me. I'm going to have to look it up again to say that most marriages are either unhappy or end is probably not what I meant to say. I would say that a lot of marriages. Um, are however unhappy or then end. I mean, the divorce rate today, and it's been that way for all my life, as much as, as long as I can remember, I've heard people say the divorce rate, uh, is about 50%.

So I mean, what other thing in life do you have a, a 50 percent chance of failing? I mean, it's not a good picture. So a lot of couples and, and I've also been intrigued by the fact that there is a divorce industry out there, you know, that actually is encouraging or, you know, maybe not encouraging, but they certainly are enabling it.

You know that we can make this easy for you. We can help you get through this. And, um, you know, and I kind of understand what they're trying to [00:21:00] do and I don't fault them for trying to earn a living and helping people in that way. But, you know, one of the things that I want to do is I want to be on the top of the cliff telling people to turn around rather than be at the bottom of the cliff in an ambulance to pick them up when they've crashed.

And so, um, for me, Uh, yeah, so a lot of couple, a lot of marriages end and then a lot of them, they're just like, okay, well, you know, I guess I'm just doomed to a life of unhappiness because of the fact that, you know, maybe it's their upbringing and their background, their religious beliefs or whatever, but they just believe that divorce is wrong.

I would much prefer, by the way, a couple to go that route because chances are, as you work through it. Love does grow and is and blossoms. But the grass is not greener on the other side, and you better, you need to figure out how to make it work. And if you do, um, then you can experience, um, I think some great things in life and in your marriage.

[00:22:00] Um, so I think everybody starts out. They want two things. They want their marriage to be great and they want it to last. Um, sadly, that's not. I think the reality for a lot of couples, um, maybe most is an overstatement though, uh, but certainly for a lot and, um, you know, divorce is painful and, and, uh, it, it is devastating, um, to the, to the families, to the kids.

Um, I don't care what the psychologists say that, well, you can bounce back and recover and heal. You know what? If you can avoid that pain, by all means, do so. It is, and I've done, as a pastor, I do a lot of funerals. And, um, I talk to a lot of people about how to handle grief when someone dies. The emotional reaction that is unavoidable to a divorce is the same As if you're, in fact, it's worse in many ways as if your partner or your [00:23:00] spouse died, it is the same reaction emotionally because, and actually, if you think about it, something did die.

Your marriage died. So, yeah, it's, uh, Do what you can to make it work and figure out how do we stay married and how do we make it great? And I think the answers are pretty, uh, you know, not that hard to find

David Dowlen: now i'll send you that notation if you want Uh, I I generally try and be careful make sure I Don't take things outta context, so I can send you that notation. You look back.

Kelly Dupee: Oh, okay.

David Dowlen: I know you wrote, you know, I know exactly. You wrote a while ago, so

Kelly Dupee: I know in exactly, exactly what chapter that's from. So you, you don't need to send that to me and I hope I didn't accuse you of misquoting me.

No,

David Dowlen: no, but I, I, I, you know what? I, I like people keeping me honest, right? Oh, okay. Uh, and, and so it was absolutely fair to say, am I misquoting that one? Or, uh, you know, just. You wrote the book? [00:24:00] Yeah. , uh, no, it just, it, it just stuck out to me. I, I told you when we're talking off camera, I go to a lot of marriage classes, a lot of studies and stuff like that.

I'm always looking for fresh and honest takes on it because I've been to a lot of quote unquote marriage classes are read relationship books, and I'm just like, okay, this is all crap. They're blowing smoke up, but you know, it's right. This person's not grounded in reality. And I find out that the author has.

They've married for like four happy years and has three kids. It's like, what do you know about marriage, man? Yeah, exactly. Maybe it's the, I hate to call it old man syndrome, right? As you get older, your perspectives change and you start to look at things. And you're like, when someone who's been married for four years, it's trying to tell me how to save my marriage or protect my marriage.

And I've been married for 20 plus. I'm like, Come back to me. You haven't even hit the hard years yet. So,

Kelly Dupee: Oh, exactly. Exactly. And I do have a [00:25:00] tendency when I'm doing premarital count, um, coaching. Um, I'm like, okay guys, I'm not going to sugar coat anything. This is going to be hard and this is going to be challenging more than, you know, and here's what you need to do to get ready for it.

And, uh, yeah, that is my approach. I think we need to, to face the reality of the situation and then, you know, move forward with confidence. You can move forward trusting that we are going to work it out, but it's not going to be like it is in the movies. It's just not. Life isn't that way, you know, and I, I think my experience both as a pastor, but also, you know, as a member of a police department, as their chaplain, you know, life is hard, life is painful, and, and bad things really do happen to good people, and that's kind of, I, I think influenced a lot of my, you know, You know, the way I help folks.

It's like, you know what? Um, yeah, if, if you think that knowing Jesus is going to [00:26:00] make everything easy, and I know we're not on camera right now, but just anyways, my approach to that. I just want to face the reality of it. And then we can invite God into it to bless us and to help us. Anyways, I was, I was going for it there.

David Dowlen: I like it. We are in camera actually. Oh, we are. Okay, cool. We're good. No, this whole thing's in. No, I love that. And that's, that's actually why I asked, because I liked that approach. Uh, to me, that gains a lot of credit to you as a counselor and a coach for marriage, because I've, I've seen way too many coaches, marriage coaches who are trying to paint this glorious picture.

And it's like, no, let's, let's, let's deal with reality because if you have false expectations going in, you're just hurting things now, I want to lightly touched on a couple of parts on the book in chapter four. It's about demonstrating your love, which I love reading because you're actually talking about [00:27:00] taking action in your relationships.

Too many people, I think, feel like, okay, I got married, we're done, right? We're together, yay, I won. Uh, and they miss that it's an active choice every single day by the way you live, by the way you do things. So let's talk about that just a little bit.

Kelly Dupee: Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the first part of the book, I have what I call five commitments to make.

And then the second part, uh, is five skills to learn. So under the commitments, the difference between a commitment and a skill, a skill you're going to use in a situation. Okay. So I'm being faced with a specific situation. What do I do now? A commitment, however, is something that you need to wake up every day and do.

Um, and demonstrating your love to your wife is absolutely critical. Um, You know, I mean, God sets the example, John 3, 16, maybe you've heard of that verse before. For God so loved the world that He [00:28:00] gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Well, the word in there that we need to apply to our marriage is give or gave.

Okay, so in the same way that God gave his son to us every day as a husband, I'm thinking about what can I do to give to my wife? How can I help her? There's another verse in Ephesians that says it this way. It says, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church. And then later it says husband loves your wives and wives respect your husbands So when when I read what god wants me to do as a husband, um, it's all about okay I need to love my wife as christ loved the church.

Wow. What did he do? Well, he sacrificed himself. So as for us now, how do I put that in a practical way? Yeah, absolutely. If somebody's coming after my wife or my kids, I'm not going to let them hurt them. I'm going to stand up. I'm going to defend them. And if [00:29:00] it costs me my life, so be it. I'm going to lay down my life.

But for most of us, the majority of us, come on guys, let's be real. No one is coming at your wife with a gun or a knife. Okay, they are not gonna rape her or attack her. It doesn't happen. Now, it can happen. I get it. And, and we need to be ready to learn how and know how to defend. But, you know what I'm saying, is that if you're ready to do that, what keeps you or can you have that same attitude of giving and sacrifice and loving in doing nice things for her?

Make her coffee in the morning, you know, clean up after yourself around the house. If that bugs her, um, wash your car, you know, um, here, here's one of the things that, that my wife came to me and I actually tell the story right at the beginning of the book, but about seven years into our marriage, Um, she came to me and she said, um, I don't feel like I'm [00:30:00] special to you.

And I was shocked. I was like, what do you mean? I, you know, and, and so really what she, and what I want to challenge you guys to think about is what can you do to make your wife feel special? And she gave me some suggestions, by the way, she was very practical. One of the things I still do to this day is called a just because gift.

And so I was raised with the attitude, and I know this is a long answer to your question, so I'll try to keep this short, but I was raised sort of with this thing about, you know, you give gifts on occasions, your birthday, Christmas, stuff like that. And she goes, don't give me a gift just because it's my birthday or it's Christmas or Valentine's Day.

Give it to me just because you love me. Surprise me with something. And I don't mean go spend a lot of money, just do a little gesture. So I, I'll, I'll go, uh, you know, and buy a greeting card and then mail it to her office. [00:31:00] Um, or, you know, just have flowers for her when she comes home or little things, you know, and serving and giving.

How can I make your life easier? Is a question I make to myself. I ask myself about my wife all the time. What can I do for you? How can I demonstrate? Because love isn't just a feeling. Love is an action. Love is a verb. And to quote another scripture, you know, Romans 5, 8 tells us that God demonstrated his own love for us in this, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So demonstration is what counts was talking to a guy yesterday on a coaching call. And, and his wife was telling him that he's failing in showing her how much he loves her. And I'm like, okay, dude, let's talk about it. We got to figure out a way for you to start doing that more effectively and more consistently.

It's not the big gift, by the way, that counts. It's not the vacation once a year. You know what it [00:32:00] is? It's the little stuff day by day. That's what is going to create that kind of atmosphere, uh, in your marriage. And it's going to really make things stronger.

David Dowlen: Guys, we've, we've talked about the love languages.

We won't dive into that in this episode, but knowing your wife's love language.

Kelly Dupee: Critical

David Dowlen: really help you with this aspect of it. But I love that you share that story. I remember reading the story in the book. It was like, I don't even know how I would respond if my, if my wife walked up and told me that I'd be like, Oh, right.

Cause we, we tend to express love in our love language and as men, right. We really fall into that whole provider. I don't know. I'm taking, and I'm fixing things around the house, right? I'm taking care of the house. I'm taking care of this. I'm doing this. And that may be great, but our spouse may have a totally different love language.

Uh, in fact, my wife and I, one of the things that has helped our marriage greatly was when we studied the [00:33:00] five love languages together, because we found out we are on different sides of that entirely. Uh, my words of affirmation is the bottom for me. I could care less if you say something nice to me. Um, I don't need to hear it.

I don't need Any kind of affirmation from anybody. My wife is a huge words. So for me, that was a huge work in my marriage is trying to remember to do those words of affirmation and speak to her like that, because I couldn't care less. So I'm like, I don't need that. Right. So you just don't do it. Um, so taking that action is important.

And then I, there's one more spot I I've got to hit on that I read and I would just blown away, right? Because I don't think we're taught how to validate. And you talk about this in chapter eight, like I highlighted that section of the book. We're not taught how to validate. And a lot of times when men are kind of faced with that concept of validation, [00:34:00] we're faced with it with a very,

how do I say this without getting totally canceled, with a very feminine perspective, feminine perspective, right? The way it's presented to us to validate people's feelings. Like I cringe, like the hairs on my neck stand up every time I hear the words. Well, you need to validate their action. I'm like, oh no.

I just wanna punch somebody. . It's so counterintuitive to a lot of men. Tell us a little bit about validating our spouses.

Kelly Dupee: So good. So good. Yeah. Well, first off, let me tell you what not to do. All right, here is the biggest temptation. And I fall into this all the time. The biggest mistake that I hear from a lot of guys, all right, your wife comes to you and she's.

And maybe it's something you did. Okay. If my wife is like in tears or she's upset or she's angry. My first question is what did I do [00:35:00] now? Right. And so, so once she tells me that, no, it's not about you. I'm like, whew. Okay. Now what? You know? So, um, here, here's the thing. We go into fix it mode. Think about it.

Yeah, we all do because that's how God made us as men. Our job is to be the fixer. We're going to fix stuff around our house. We're going to work hard or pay someone to fix stuff around our house. If you can't do it yourself, you get it. You know, you can still, you, you get stuff done and you take care of things and we are geared towards action and activity.

In fact, when guys get together, notice we like to do stuff shoulder to shoulder. When women get together, they like to do stuff face to face. Why? Because it's all relational. So anyways, back to the question, when your wife is troubled and it's not about you, cause you didn't screw up. Um, what do you do?

Here's the thing, [00:36:00] listening Is helping. Okay. I know it's hard to do, especially if she's emotional, but let me tell you that what she needs is not your advice. She doesn't need you to fix it. And if she does need that, wait for her to ask for it. That one little tip is going to change your your marriage.

Okay, so she's upset. What are you gonna do? You're gonna listen you're gonna ask questions Gently don't interrupt but you know kind of wait for that moment between sobs or whatever it might be You know where where you can kind of say well You know, tell me more. How did that make you feel? Be a listener because if you want to help your wife, that's how you do it.

And it's really counterintuitive for us as guys. And it's really hard because we don't like emotion. We don't like to see emotion. We don't like to be emotional ourselves for most of us, right? So just be in that moment and recognize that you can do it. God will give you the [00:37:00] strength and, and be a man and step up and be there as her knight in shining armor.

Um, By listening. Okay. Then as part of that, ask yourself, if I was going through this, what would I feel? How would I feel? You know what? That's called empathy. And once again, that's one of those words that everybody, you know, we don't understand. And we think it's really a, you know, women do that. Men don't do that.

You know what we do? We can. And it is an act of strength. Okay, so is validation. So here's what you do to validate. First off, you're listening. Secondly, you're trying to feel what they're feeling. Okay, that's called empathy. And then validation is simply this, what you're going through, what you're feeling makes sense.

That's all it is guys. Don't make it complicated. Don't make it hard. Oh, okay So your boss just came in and yelled at you because you forgot to do whatever [00:38:00] And now you feel like a failure and now you think you're gonna get lose your job And how are we gonna pay our rent and you know, all this other stuff that she's feeling All right.

So most guys we're into like, okay, let's figure out how to pay the rent. No. No No, that's not what she needs right? So validate You know, I could see why you feel that way, honey. And it's okay. It's okay to feel that way. I know you're afraid, you know, if I was in your shoes, maybe I'd feel afraid too. And that it makes her cause see when we're upset.

The natural go to that we all feel is I must be losing my mind. I must be crazy. You want to assure her that she's not crazy. That it's normal to feel that way. In fact, when I'm talking to cops, and they go through stuff that you would not believe. I mean, it is way different than what you see on TV. And in the movies, I mean, being a police officer is way more difficult than I ever thought.

And I'm not an officer, but I hang out with them and, [00:39:00] and I'm there to talk to them. And it's all about reminding them that, you know what? You're not Superman. You're human. Just like the, like everybody else, you feel stuff, you see stuff. So let's talk about it. And, and it's just having that listening ear and validating them.

In fact, how I learned how to validate in my marriage, I learned it from the training I got as a police chaplain and, uh, or it, it really helped a lot of that, but, um, or I learned how to do it better, I should say, but anyways, it's all about, it makes sense. I understand what you're going through, what she needs, and that's, what's going to help.

David Dowlen: On that note. Okay. My wife and I, I just said it. We're hitting 23 years this weekend. I blew this entirely yesterday. This is a work in progress at all times. I started, I started strong. Like she came to me about something and I started well with listening. I stopped what I was doing and started listening.

But the longer [00:40:00] the conversation went, the more I got into fix it mode. It's like, okay, I heard you. I listened, but I had other stuff to do. And so my brain was like. Well, where do we go from here? Right. I started moving to that and I totally blew this guy's yesterday. Totally blew in this exact scenario. My wife just lost a big client.

She's worked with for years. Uh, the client's business is going through a massive change. The clients just burn out on what they're doing. And so she's making some radical changes. My wife lost this client that she's had for years. She was feeling horrible and I blew this guy's entirely. So even if you've been married for.

Several years, this is something we have to actually working on because it's not in our normal wheelhouse for a lot of us guys, right? This is something that's a work in progress. So I wrote this question before this even happened yesterday. So, and, and

Kelly Dupee: I'm still working on [00:41:00] it too. And I, and I, I do it a lot and I need to do it a lot in the situations that I find myself in.

That's what I'm there to do, but I got to tell you, it's still something I'm learning how to do in practicing. It it's, it's hard to do. It's, it's really challenging, but you know what you can and don't worry about getting it right. Just try. That's all I got to tell you guys. Just give it a shot. Give it your best shot to, and, and if you can't think of anything to say, um, you know, once again, being there, being patient and listening and allowing her, uh, to just work through the emotions and process that.

So here's the, here's another thing I learned just recently. I got this from a therapist is that emotions need motion. So when you're listening and she's talking, she's giving motion to the feelings that are trapped inside of her, okay? And, and guys, we need to, we need this in our life too. If you [00:42:00] don't have a place or a friend or if your wife, you know, going to your wife, if, if, uh, you can, and a lot of wives don't really want to do this, but, but in a good marriage or hopefully, you know, yeah, go to your wife.

Yeah. Go to a friend as well in addition to, and just process the pain you're feeling because you're going through stuff just like everybody else and you have feelings too. Now, you may not have the great feeling word vocabulary. So I put a whole list in the back of the book just to help you with that.

But anyways, learning how to share your feelings is something that will really help you deal with the challenges of life too. And allowing someone to validate you. Is you're going to feel really good afterwards. You're going to feel understood. You're going to feel known. And that's what is a deep human need in all of us.

David Dowlen: Hi guys. We've been discussing marriage and the ins and outs, part of Kelly's book and some of the things he highlighted in that, and some very important insights for your marriage, if you want it to be [00:43:00] healthy in this part of the show, we're going to dive into the five skills to learn for healthy relationships that Kelly covers in his book.

Now, we're going to give you a ground place to work on that from some ideas, things to work on. I'm going to point you back to Kelly's book, say, Hey, if you really want to go in depth on this and really are not following Kelly's book as a place to go. One thing I have learned after doing over a hundred plus interviews is I can't cover a whole book.

It's just, it's impossible. I Kelly, you list five and this is the second part of a set of skills you have.

Five commitments. You have your commitments, right? And the skills really pair with those to make this all synchronize and work effectively. One of the skills you say, and I think we touched on it a little bit last, we need to learn to share our feelings, which for most of us as men are going, but, but, but we're, we're heading into uncomfortable territory here, guys.

Just be. [00:44:00] Frank, so tell us a little bit about that. We have been sharing our feelings. Are we going to get like all weepy and cuddly with her? What is this?

Kelly Dupee: Okay. Well, basically it's this and, and yeah, feelings is the F word. So, uh, if it's hard for you, I get it. It's hard for me as well, but it is the, the opening.

So, so here's the thing you remember, you think about what do you want? Okay. What do you want? What do you want your marriage to be like if you want to be close to your spouse, to your wife, and if you want your wife to feel close to you, the way to do that is to share your feelings with her and to let her share her feelings with you.

So, way to do that, that is really easy, is just ask her the question, how did that make you feel? Okay. The other phrase that pays is tell me more. Just start asking that question. [00:45:00] How did that make you feel? And then maybe she'll ask you now, at first you may say, I don't know. Okay. But, and she may say that to you, by the way, well, I don't know how I feel, or I don't know how that made me feel.

All right. Just think about it and just, you know, reflect for a little bit and just try. And like I say it in the back of the book is a feeling word list. So you can look up, you know, just go there and it's all under category. So if you're feeling angry, Well, look at the different words that describe that emotion, anger, or if you're feeling happy, look at those different words and find one that kind of matches what you feel.

Because you could be, if you're angry, you could be frustrated. You could also be enraged, okay, because you're really angry, right? Well, that's what this is all about. It's just describing it a little bit more deeper. And then when she says, well, why do you feel that way? Hmm. Just go for it. [00:46:00] Just, just tell her, yeah, well, it's, uh, you know, and whatever comes to your mind, opening up like that is going to really make your marriage stronger

David Dowlen: guys.

And that appendix is going to help because there are more filling words in that appendix. And I actually knew there were. So, let's just be honest there, uh, there, there are way more words in that list than I actually knew existed for fillings, and I would not ever say 90 percent of these. So, learning opportunity, gentlemen, um, I did not know there were that many words for fillings, so go hit Appendix A in the book, it's gonna help, you know, increase your vocabulary at the same time.

Now you said the second skill we need to learn is to understand each other. Now it's huge. A lot of us think we understand our spouse pretty well, but do we really?

Kelly Dupee: Yeah. Yeah. So once again, what do you want? If you want a great marriage, learning how to understand. So [00:47:00] understanding starts with listening.

But don't just listen to reply. So here's the thing that we also fall into. Um, and I'm guilty of this instead of listening to understand, we listen to reply and basically it works like this in your mind. What are you saying to yourself when your wife is talking to you? Chances are you're probably saying, what am I going to say when she stops?

Right? What am I going to stay when she comes up for air? How can I get a word in edgewise here? Right. And so really focus on this. And I give a little simple tool in the in the chapter about how to listen to understand. And it's basically you give yourself a test. OK. Just like you're in school when the teacher says this is going to be on the test, you listen up.

And you'd be like, Oh, okay. I need to pay attention. So the test basically is this when my wife stops talking, here's the one question on the test. When my wife stops talking, what did she say? [00:48:00] So you want to be able to repeat it back in your own words. You don't need to get it. Perfect. But repeat it back in your own words and try to then empathize and think what was she feeling as well If you can say that back to her then simply ask.

Hey, is that is that close? Did I understand it and you know what she may say? No, you didn't get it It's not that at all that she looks at you like you're the biggest dummy in the world, but you know what you tried So kudos to you for trying and then she'll explain it again or share it again And then you try one more time and you know what you'll start you you will get to the place where she says Yeah, you understand and I want to tell you guys If you want closeness, if you want intimacy, when your wife feels understood, she is going to just melt into your arms like you won't believe.

Why? Because that's what she's looking for with you. She wants an emotional intimacy that goes along then [00:49:00] certainly with the physical intimacy that is really important in your marriage. So, Anyways, the, the point is listen to understand and focus on, I need to understand you. And then as she, um, does that to you, you're going to feel closer to her as well.

David Dowlen: Now guys, let me, let me give you a tip here. Your wife is one of the only places in the world where trying actually matters as far as like, whether you're successful or not, she's one of the only people in the world who's going to give you brownie points. For making the effort, even if you get it wrong the first couple of times, when she can clearly tell you're trying, you're making a concerted effort to understand that goes, that that's brownie points like that.

She will actually give you brownie points for that. Cause she can at least see you're trying. She made it illustrated that it's harder that you didn't quite get it. But she will appreciate that you are making an effort, especially if this is something new for you. Uh, I still get the brownie points cause I totally miss it [00:50:00] most of the time, but I'm trying right.

Work in progress. This next, the next chapter, honestly, to me is one of the hardest things in marriage. Uh, I was, I, I read this chapter and went. Why is this hard after 23 years? It's still hard to ask for what you need as we, we lean into that sacrificial love, as you were talking about earlier. And so my needs go to the background a lot.

That's not because my wife forces them there, but because I put them back to focus on my children, my wife. And so this chapter really kind of hit me. It's like, I need to grow here. Growing is painful, but I need to grow here. Cause this is not something I'm good at. So, and that sounds weird for a lot of people, right?

Asking for what you need. You have no problem with that at work a lot of times, but in a relationship, how do we ask for what we need? [00:51:00] Very good.

Kelly Dupee: Yeah. Um, so yeah, I think this is one of the keys of success in life. Okay. Not just in marriage, but in, in life. Um, you know, when, uh, it's realizing that there are things that you cannot provide for yourself and the opposite of that is this lie called self sufficiency.

And I think one of the things that we fall into as guys is that if you're going to be a real man, you don't need anybody. And it's, it's so. Dangerous to think that isolation is a killer, my friends. And I could go off on that for hours. Um, but that tendency to isolate to think that it's all just, you know, I'm going to take care of myself and I don't need people.

Yes, you do need people. God made you that way. You know, when a police officer shows up to a call, you know what he does? He calls for backup. Okay, he, he needs somebody to [00:52:00] come alongside him into that situation and we need to ask for help. Okay. And learning how to do this and learning how to ask for what you need is going to be a huge area of when you, when you learn how to do this and, and work at it and stretch and push yourself a little bit.

It's going to open up. way more. It's going to improve your marriage. It's going to make your life better in lots of ways. Okay. So first step, start thinking about what, what, what is it that, you know, if you're not happy, if there's something missing, think about it, and then ask specifically. Okay. And I go into the detail on this.

Um, my favorite story, I don't, I think I told this in the book if not, but there was this couple that came to me and, um, you know, her, um, she asked her husband to put up the Christmas lights. Okay. And, and he didn't do it. And then [00:53:00] she's like, well, he never does anything I say or anything I ask him to do.

And I looked at the guy and, um, I'm like, well, what's going on, buddy? He goes, it's not Christmas yet. And it was like the beginning of December, right? And so in her mind, she was saying, put up the Christmas lights now. And in his mind, he's like, well, I got until December 24th, what's the rush? So the point is when you ask, be specific and then give the person, give your wife the timeline or allow her to give you the timeline.

So I teach how to ask so that you can actually then. You know, um, get and enjoy that, but the first part of it, though, the chapter really deals with that whole idea of self sufficiency and I want to encourage you guys, don't believe that lie. You are not, um, able to meet all of the needs in life yourself.

You're just not. God didn't make you that way. You need, you need friends. [00:54:00] And, um, and when, if God has brought a wife into your life, he has brought her there to be a resource for you. So don't ignore that, but don't, um, and, and it will bring you closer by the way, when your wife realizes that she can help you.

So the key to that is being vulnerable enough and taking that risk to ask. And you know what? I think you're going to be surprised at how this is going to be a game changer for you.

David Dowlen: Now, guys, my two cents on that is remember this is a two way street. So you open this door. That means when she asked you for something, she needs, if you want her to reciprocate on that and take care of what you need, you're You have to be Johnny on the spot too.

Okay. This isn't just a, I asked for my needs and she's going to take care of it. Well, she's got needs too. And they're not all the needs you want to take care of. They're putting up the Christmas lights at the beginning of December. [00:55:00] That's that's uh, that was a fun story because I that's the fight in my house I'm like two weeks before christmas.

That's it. No more than that January 1st they're coming down

Kelly Dupee: Exactly. Yeah, my me too

David Dowlen: People who put them up in october i'm losing my mind Now, speaking of that, cause the next one is express your anger in a healthy way. And trust me, Christmas lights in October make me angry. I'm a Halloween guy. I like Halloween.

Not because there's anything valid to like it's it's my kids get to go have fun. That's what it is for me. But I get to be silly that day. I love Halloween, right? So it's the one day I can totally be somebody else and just laugh and, uh, not take anything seriously. And so yeah, anger holiday lights at Christmas, when you just skip over everything from September into all the way to Thanksgiving, I'm losing my mind.

So how do we express anger? In a healthy way in our marriage [00:56:00]

Kelly Dupee: and yeah, this is this is huge. In fact one of the biggest Um mistakes, I think couples make and it's not always just a guy thing. It's a it can your Wives fall into this trap, too But I think in general, it's more of a struggle for a man asking for what you need is usually a woman's struggle.

They have a hard time with that. Um, although we do too, but, um, anger, let's talk about that. Let's be real. It is damaging. Okay. When you just vent your anger. So what happens to scenarios, either you do something that upsets your spouse, your wife, or she does something that upsets you and you just lay into her, you know, and you just go for it.

And you know what you're doing, you are damaging her and you're damaging your marriage. So here's the thing you got to learn to do all a time out on yourself. Okay, it's simple, but when you start feeling it to boil and you know what it feels [00:57:00] like, it's like it's raging up inside of you. If you can just take a moment and just say, wait a minute, I need to calm down.

Okay. And so what is it? That's a sign in football, right? We're going to call a time out, call a time out, walk away, but it's a promise to come back. Don't just say, I don't want to talk about this in this leave. That's going to just make your wife angry. All right. But. What you do you walk away and then you have a drink of water My police friends taught me how to it taught me this and it changes everything It resets the part of your brain because when you're angry what happens is that the front part of your brain that deals with your Decision making ability it actually shifts and the blood flow goes to the back.

That's where fight or flight Come in. So either if you're feeling attacked, you're either going to run away or you're going to fight back. So that tendency to fight back, stand your ground and defend yourself. You've been offended, you've been hurt. So now you're going to defend. And [00:58:00] that's where that's coming from fight or flight.

And you're not thinking, and you're probably going to say or do something that you will regret later. Okay. I mean, and, and I hope, okay. Anybody listening to this has never, you know, um, been, uh, arrested for domestic violence, but this is what happens when your brain shifts and you're in fight or flight mode.

I mean, I have talked and heard stories of guys that just later after they calmed down, they're like, I can't believe I did that. Something just happened. I wasn't in control. Well, what was going on is that your anger was in control and you did something that now, you know, have some significant consequences.

Anyways, what do you got to do? You call a timeout, you have a drink of water. You think about what do I need to say? And then you go back and you have what I call a calm, confrontational conversation that will change everything. And now you can work through [00:59:00] the issue in a calm way. But if you just allow that anger to just vent and explode all over the place, it's going to produce some really bad things in your life as well as in your marriage.

So. Watch out for that anger. The bible tells us be angry, but don't sin Where's the sin part of it is when it just explodes and you're just you know, and really at that point in time You're not thinking about um, how how bad you feel you're trying to get revenge You're you're you're trying to make the other person hurt.

So hold that impulse in check It is important to talk about your feelings, but do it in a way that's not going to damage You You're the person you're talking to. Certainly your wife.

David Dowlen: Now, this next one really kind of caught me off guard. Right. And it shouldn't because money is one of the top disputes in all of marriage.

It's, it's one of the biggest causes of unhappy marriages and ultimately [01:00:00] divorce is conflicts over money. But every couple seems to have their way. They do this. My sister and her husband been married for 22 years. Uh, they have completely separate bank accounts. They handled their own money. They split the bills.

Nothing is joint. My wife and I have had. A bank account. It's our bank account together. Since the day we got married and to be honest, my wife manages it. I don't even know what's in there. 99 percent of the time, cause I don't care. I make money and she pays bills cause she's better at bookkeeping. That's one of the things she does as a bookkeeper.

And so she's better at handling our finances. I'm an impulse guy. You know, this impulse aisles at Walmart, they were made for me. That's like, I'm their target audience. Now I'm checking out with, you know, a gallon of milk. I'm like, Ooh, I do need a new flash drive and a hot wheels. That's a good looking hot wheels.

Right?

That that that's aisles were made for me. So I was a horrible at paying bills. My wife's much better at it. [01:01:00] So you just talked about manage your money together with wisdom. Let's dive in.

Kelly Dupee: Oh, perfect. Yeah. So you can avoid a lot of pain by simply just saying, okay, let's talk about with, let's talk about money and let's talk about doing it together.

We need to get on the same page because when you, when you have two different, um, uh, ideas or two different desires, or if you will, two different approaches to money. And basically all of us, uh, can be broken into two categories or somewhere in the middle between the two and that's the spender and the saver.

So a spender is like what Brent was just talking about impulse buy, you know, just whatever, you know, and we spend to feel good savers. On the other hand, are motivated often by fear. I'm not going to have enough. And so I need to put everything I have in the bank. Well, both [01:02:00] extremes are not are unhealthy.

Um, so the balancing point is that spenders need to learn how to save, but savers need to learn how to spend. So that's step one. Then you want to then decide, um, or, or track your spending and see where your money's going right now. Then you want to. Um, put your priorities on paper and that's called a spending plan.

What is important to you? Um, how much are you saving? How much are you giving, uh, to your church or other charities or whatever you want to do, but having that attitude of gratitude and being generous with your finances, um, is really important as well. Um, what else? And then you have all of the things you have to pay.

But then there's probably money left over and then there's things that you get to pay. So how much you want to spend on eating out? Most couples, when I talk to you about managing funds, I mean, there's, [01:03:00] and they start tracking, they're shocked at how much money goes to places like Starbucks and McDonald's and, and let alone nice restaurants.

And so it's just, they're tired. The kids are hungry. So let's just drive through someplace on the way home. And that's dinner. And that works every once in a while, but it's all about planning ahead. What do you want to do with your money? So, um, when, when my wife and I started doing this, and this was years ago, we limited our personal cash.

Okay. To 50 each a month. Um, and so, uh, but this was probably 20, 25 years ago, maybe. And so I realized that, you know what, I can save that 50 bucks and I can go play around a golf at a cheap golf course for that. And I'd rather play golf than eat lunch. So instead of buying my lunch out, I started making my lunch.

And so either [01:04:00] leftovers or, you know, buying groceries and putting it together or whatever, and you know what, I'm still to this day, I never go out for lunch unless I'm doing something special, you know, with a friend or a business associate or something like that. Or unless somebody treats me to lunch, then I'll go out, of course, that'll be great.

But the idea is that you get to make choices with what you want to do with your funds. And that is called a spinning plan, or the other word is called a budget. A budget to me, though, sounds a lot like a diet. Who wants to go on a diet? I don't want to go on a diet. Well, I certainly don't want to be told no about budgeting.

But here's the thing I want you guys to also remember about your marriage. Okay. Is that you don't want to get in the place of being the bad guy, nor do you want to make your wife be the bad guy. All right. And you know what I mean by this? So Brent and his wife are in Walmart and he sees the latest, greatest, shiniest [01:05:00] little thing for your truck.

You probably drive a truck, right? I drive a motorcycle. Oh, okay. For his motorcycle then. All right. This would be, you know, maybe it's, it's the wax for the gas tanker, the fender, or who knows what it is, the Chrome polish or something like this. And it's the latest greatest deal or, or the accessory or whatever it might be, you know, in the computer aisle or something like that.

And he looks at his wife and he says, Hey, this would be great. And you know what he's doing, right? He's asking her, is it okay for me to buy this? So here's what happens in a lot of marriages that causes conflict. She looks at him and says, no. Now, what is that all about? He's now Making her be the bad guy and make those adult decisions and telling the child in him.

No, you can't do this so point is um You don't [01:06:00] make her the bad guy instead make the budget the bad guy and the budget says well, you know what? We really can't afford it. Or if we do want that latest greatest shiny toy Where are we going to pay for it from what category are we going to take from in order to buy this So we could cut back on buying clothes for the kids That would give us the money to buy this.

Is that what you would like to do? See what i'm saying Now your wife isn't the bad guy or vice versa Now you don't have to be the bad guy if she's the spender and you're the saver or the one watching the money So work on it together unite yourself financially and you're going to see your marriage Grow and get stronger

David Dowlen: Guys, I will tell you from experience because I used to meet my wife, the bad guy, uh, making this switch to turning around and cause my wife doesn't like to tell me now I don't, I don't ask for things very often earlier in our marriage.

I'm sure I did. I don't ask for things very often, but she doesn't like to tell me no, when I [01:07:00] actually do. Cause I don't ask for them very often. And so I lead in with the question of, is it in our budget where I can spend this without hurting us, without impacting us?

Kelly Dupee: Perfect.

David Dowlen: And learning to ask that. So my wife doesn't have to feel, cause I'm not asking her to tell me.

No, I'm asking her to give me solid information because she knows our budget inside and out. I don't.

Kelly Dupee: That's awesome.

David Dowlen: Right. That was a huge, huge event for us. When I started making that jump instead of going, please, you know, when you, when you start sounding like your kids. Kids are great for that. Kids teach you this like, Oh, wow.

I really am sounding like my children. Right now, guys, if you're getting something out of it, be sure and click the like button, leave a comment, leave us a review, share this with a friend. That's much more important to me. Share this with a friend who would benefit from this conversation. [01:08:00] Because our goal is to touch the many men's lives as possible.

We are very pro marriage here. Fight for your marriage. I want to give you tools to help you have a better marriage. So please, if you know anybody who would benefit from this conversation, please, please, please share it with them. Kelly, we're going to start land this airplane. What are the first three steps our listeners can do today to start this journey to start putting their marriage together into a better place, whether they've got a good marriage and this is a checkup and a tune up, or whether they think they're struggling wherever they are, what are the first three steps our listeners can implement from this conversation?

Kelly Dupee: So three things that I would really. First off, look at the anger. Okay. Because that, as I said earlier, is not just, um, hindering, it's hurting your marriage. If anger is a problem, and it could be your wife's problem, it may not be yours, but if it is, then [01:09:00] absolutely learn to take that time out. And then, um, You know, start really, you know, thinking about, okay, what do I need to do, uh, to get a handle on this, but take the time out and then, um, figure out what you need to talk about and come back and have a, a productive conversation.

So that would be, um, tip number one, tip number two is, uh, the listening part. Listen to understand, don't listen to reply. And, um, just really spending time, uh, doing that. Probably tip number three is make your wife feel special. Um, and figure out how to give and serve and demonstrate your love on a regular basis to her.

You do those three things and things are going to change dramatically. And by the way, if you get stuck, let me know if I can help you.

David Dowlen: Kelly, any big projects coming down the line for you?

Kelly Dupee: I'm working on an audio book for my book, uh, and a workbook and maybe even a [01:10:00] small group study guide that I'm going to put together.

So working on that, um, and, uh, yeah, just really blessed at all of the couples that are coming my way for, for coaching. And so, um, yeah, having a lot of fun having conversations with folks about stuff.

David Dowlen: Where's the best place for people to connect with you after this conversation?

Kelly Dupee: Um, turnitup. coach is my website.

And, uh, so there it is. Yeah. The website and you can book a free call. You can get my book and, um, I'm actually offering the free digital copy of it at, um, turnitup. coach slash 75. So if you would like a free copy of the book. Reach out to me via that way or via the website, and then that will get you the free copy.

Uh, there it is. Yeah. Turn it up. coach slash 75. Awesome. And you can get a paperback copy for a 75 percent discount. So I'm offering in that right now.

David Dowlen: All right. [01:11:00] Now I know all you guys are really concerned about the most visited attraction in the world. You said the Eiffel Tower is actually the forbidden city in China, it's the only one that's visited.

You know, but I think, I think it has to do with population because if you're Chinese, right? You're more likely to visit something in country, and there's just a lot more Chinese individuals in the world. That is true. Based on population. So I think that's where that comes in, because the Eiffel Tower is way up there.

I know. Guys, the book is Turn It Up by Kelly DePay. Kelly, wrap us out. If the audience heard nothing else today, what's the last thing you want to leave them with?

Kelly Dupee: Learn how to be married. Don't try to figure this out on your own. Take the time to learn how to do it right and how to do it successfully. And it will save you tons emotionally, financially, [01:12:00] uh, in all ways, you know, uh, save yourself the trouble, learn how to be married

David Dowlen: guys for myself and Kelly. Thanks for hanging out today.

Be better tomorrow because what you do today and we'll see you on the next one.

David McCarter: This has been the fellow man podcast, your home for everything man, husband and father. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show. Head over to www. TheFallibleMan. com for more content and get your own Fallible Man gear.